Can HH90 point to my extreme West or East satellites?

[yuzhanin]

I am planning a motorized dish installation. I am a total newbie although I have done a lot of reading on the subject.

I am located at 80.3 W. If I understand correctly, I need to point the motor to AMC5 at 79 W (Azimuth 183).

HH90 has a rotation angle of +/- 65 deg. Does this mean that I can get neither Telstar 12 at 15W (Azimuth 107.4) nor Echostar 1,2 at 148W (Azimuth 265.8), nor even Hispasat 1C/1D at 30W (Azimuth 115.1) or Galaxy 10R at 123W (Azimuth 250.6)?

Thanks for any help.

[rainman]

you should be able to get from 15 degree west to 145 degree west from your location. you should be able to get from telstar 12 to amc 8 that is if you have a clear line of site.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

I am planning a motorized dish installation. I am a total newbie although I have done a lot of reading on the subject.

I am located at 80.3 W. If I understand correctly, I need to point the motor to AMC5 at 79 W (Azimuth 183).

HH90 has a rotation angle of +/- 65 deg. Does this mean that I can get neither Telstar 12 at 15W (Azimuth 107.4) nor Echostar 1,2 at 148W (Azimuth 265.8), nor even Hispasat 1C/1D at 30W (Azimuth 115.1) or Galaxy 10R at 123W (Azimuth 250.6)?

Thanks for any help.

In addition to what Rainman said, the rotation angle of the motor doesn't really relate to the azimuth. Azimuth isn't really meaningful for a motorized system. The motor angle comes closer to relating to the difference in longitude between you and the sat. Ie for example, your G10r at 123 minus your 80.3 longitude equals 42.7 degrees. Feed that info into my calculator at http://wejones.ftdata.com/bjdishcalc2.htm and you will get a USALS angle of about 47, which corresponds to the rotation angle of the motor. Ie it's usually a few degrees more than the difference in longitude, but has no easy relationship with azimuth.

[yuzhanin]

Thank you very much for your replies (and the USALS angle calculator).

If I understand correctly, the motors +/-65 deg. rotation angle relates more to the orbital arc than azimuth. That confirms rainman's statement that I "should be able to get from 15 degree west to 145 degree west from your location".

However, if I used wejones' calculator properly, I get a USALS angle for the Telstar 12 at 15W of -72.39. Is that within the motor's specs?

(My coordinates are 26N 80.33W, so I used

Latitude degrees 26, Latitude minutes 0, Longitude of Dish 80.33, Longitude of Satellite 15

)

Thank you again.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

Thank you very much for your replies (and the USALS angle calculator).

If I understand correctly, the motors +/-65 deg. rotation angle relates more to the orbital arc than azimuth. That confirms rainman's statement that I "should be able to get from 15 degree west to 145 degree west from your location".

However, if I used wejones' calculator properly, I get a USALS angle for the Telstar 12 at 15W of -72.39. Is that within the motor's specs?

(My coordinates are 26N 80.33W, so I used

Latitude degrees 26, Latitude minutes 0, Longitude of Dish 80.33, Longitude of Satellite 15

)

Thank you again.

I don't know. It may well be out of range. Some of those motors can be altered to give a bit more range, and some can be altered to sacrifice range in one direction to give more range in the other direction. That sat will be down around 13 deg above your horizon, so it should be visible, but it's getting down to where reception starts to get a bit questionable.

I just pulled up the spec sheet for the HH90. It says that the software limits are 65 deg, but it says that the mechanical limits are 72 deg. That's getting real close to the amount you need, however it still may not be enough. Perhaps Saduon can comment re whether this motor can have it's limits extended, but I'm really thinking that before going to those extreme measures, you probably should try to receive that sat via fixed dish techniques. It may well be that you can't see that low due to hills, trees or buildings in the way.

[yuzhanin]

I do understand that the extreme east and west satellites are very low over the horizon, so I might be stressing over for nothing. Additionally, my dish will be only 31", so getting a signal from 15W is even lesss likely (although thoretically possible).

I have been thinking about "sacrific[ing] range in one direction to give more range in the other direction", that's why I bought up the question in the first place. Since there is really no extreme satellite on the west (the 148W one has no FTA channels), is it possible to point the dish/motor assembly more to the east to make sure it does reach the Telstar 12 at 15W?

Can it be done with USALS, or do I have to go with DisEq 1.2 control? I do not have any hands-on experience with either, so I do not know if there is a way to specify in the receiver setup that my motor's "0" is not at True South but 5-10-15 degrees east of it.

Am I making sense? A DXer in me wants to make sure I get as many channels out of my setup as I can. I don't want to feel that there is something out there that I could be receiving and am not.

Or maybe I need to grow up and/or get the all-you-can-eat mentality out of my head.

[ahoss2000]

I am located North of Orlando, due to many trees around my house I can only cover SBS6 at 74W all the way to IA7 at 129W. G10R , IA5, and AMC3 have many good channels on them. When pointing to 129W sat, the dish angle is fairly low.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

.....
I have been thinking about "sacrific[ing] range in one direction to give more range in the other direction", that's why I bought up the question in the first place. Since there is really no extreme satellite on the west (the 148W one has no FTA channels), is it possible to point the dish/motor assembly more to the east to make sure it does reach the Telstar 12 at 15W?

Can it be done with USALS, or do I have to go with DisEq 1.2 control? I do not have any hands-on experience with either, so I do not know if there is a way to specify in the receiver setup that my motor's "0" is not at True South but 5-10-15 degrees east of it.

....

I really think you're better off adding a 2nd fixed dish if you can't reach it via motor without modification. I think the modification, if possible, would involve taking apart and rotating shaft. If not for bend in shat, you could just shift how dish attaches to shaft, but due to offset bend, the shaft itself needs to be rotated. Instructions for doing this with one motor were posted not long ago, but I can't remember what motor. If this is done, you may still be able to use usals by lying about your longitude, but diseqc1.2 is probably more direct.

[yuzhanin]

Originally Posted by wejones

I really think you're better off adding a 2nd fixed dish if you can't reach it via motor without modification. I think the modification, if possible, would involve taking apart and rotating shaft. If not for bend in shat, you could just shift how dish attaches to shaft, but due to offset bend, the shaft itself needs to be rotated. Instructions for doing this with one motor were posted not long ago, but I can't remember what motor. If this is done, you may still be able to use usals by lying about your longitude, but diseqc1.2 is probably more direct.

That's a bit more involved than I'd like to get. I was hoping it could be done by aligning the dish/motor assembly more to one side or the other. Theoretically, I do not see why it can't be done, but I guess it is not supported by USALS software. I guess I will just give up on the idea of reeling the 15W satellite in.

Thank you everyone for suggestions and contributions. I am nervously awaiting the arrival of my equipment, so I can either experience the joy of getting it to work or the disappointment of unmet expectations. I am figuring, at worst, I will have a motorized dish permanently pointed at a single satellite I could somehow get it alligned to.

[Powrline]

Where I am, I can receive Hispasat @ 30 real well, but the telestar 12 @ 15 I have never been able to get. (I have tried to get the Telestar 12 maybe 5 times with both USALS and Disecq 1.2 with no success).

When my dish is pointed at Hispasat @ 30, it looks like it is pointing into my neighbor's back door. I figure that going 15 degrees lower is just not going to happen. There is a hill to my east, so I may be lucky to receive hispasat 30 at all.


powrline

[yuzhanin]

Yes, I stationary dish at my location would have to be at a 13.6 degree elevation for Telstar 12 at 15W. It would barely clear the neighbor's roof here, if at all. I know the angle is very low, but it is hard to fully visualize it until you actually try.

[yuzhanin]

OK, I am either half way there, or not even close at all. I got the dish mounted on the motor. The motor seems to work fine. It obeys USALS commands and seems to move to expected positions.

But, I cannot get a usable signal. The strength meter is always in the 60's (even when off a satelite), but the quality is always zero. A cheapo satelite finder registers a good signal too. Occasionally, I get a split-second burst of quality, but I do not know if it is meaningful.

Admittedly, I know very little, but should I be suspecting the LNB? Why would it always show strengh of 60 if there is no usable carrier signal?

[yuzhanin]

Well, apparently, the arc is off (duh, ), because I am not getting far with my dish.

I know there is no FTA stuff there, but (perhaps of the overwhelmingly strong signals) by trial an error I was able to get signals from some Echostars.

I tuned to Echostar 8/10 at 110W, was getting an intermittent signal from Echostar 7 at 119W and Echostar 9 at 121W and was even able to tune to Echostar 5 at 129W and view the "You have Dish 1000" channel there.

The problem is, even the satellites I was able to tune too, were navigated to via a manual motor control and/or adjusting the motor on the mount. Thus, to get Echostar 5 at 129W, the motor is set at about 48 deg. rotation. Using wejones' calculator, for my location, the USALS angle should be 54.96. So, how do I need to rotate the motor on the mast to get it alligned properly?

Thank you again for any suggestions.

[wejones]

Start over. Follow the directions re setting angles. Find find your true south sat first (AMC5 seems closest. Look for 11742V / 11110 or 12182H / 23000) .

Then report on results.

[yuzhanin]

Originally Posted by wejones

Start over. Follow the directions re setting angles. Find find your true south sat first (AMC5 seems closest. Look for 11742V / 11110 or 12182H / 23000) .

Then report on results.

Thanks for the reply. Please correct me if I am wrong. The three angles I need to set are as follows:

1) Set the elevation angle on the motor equal to my latitude.
2) Point the motor to TS.
3) Set the dish declination angle according to this calculator:
STAB HH motor dish angle calculation mount Satellite Look Angles

Here is what I did.
1) Set the elevation angle on the motor to 26, my latitude.
2) Calculated TS as 180+5.5 according to the page linked above. Confirmed it as 180+5.35 through a 2007 calculator on a Canadian gov. site.
3) Calculated the dish declination as 40.6 in the above-linked calculator (26 deg. N, 80.3 deg. W, HH90 motor). Set it just above the 40 mark on the dish's scale.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

Thanks for the reply. Please correct me if I am wrong. The three angles I need to set are as follows:

I would add one here before you start, and send the motor to zero, and make sure that it actually goes there.

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

1) Set the elevation angle on the motor equal to my latitude.

I'm assuming that the HH90 only has a "latitude" scale, not both latitude and elevation. Some motors have both, and an elevation scale should get 90 minus your latitude. If it's a latitude scale, then yes, however I would really recommend using 26.6, ie about 0.6 more than your latitude.

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

2) Point the motor to TS.

Yes.

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

3) Set the dish declination angle according to this calculator:
STAB HH motor dish angle calculation mount Satellite Look Angles

I don't know why STAB made that so complicated. It's simply 45 minus your declination. But YES. However, I would recommend using the declination of an extreme sat (ie modified declination according to Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing . Using this value is the reason for adding 0.6 to your latitude setting.

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

Here is what I did.
1) Set the elevation angle on the motor to 26, my latitude.

Again try 26.6

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

2) Calculated TS as 180+5.5 according to the page linked above. Confirmed it as 180+5.35 through a 2007 calculator on a Canadian gov. site.

OK

Originally Posted by yuzhanin

3) Calculated the dish declination as 40.6 in the above-linked calculator (26 deg. N, 80.3 deg. W, HH90 motor). Set it just above the 40 mark on the dish's scale.

Actually the 40.6 is the so-called dish elevation. Your declination is either 4.4, if you use the declination of a South sat (so 45-4.4 gives you the 40.6 value you quote above), or if you use the declination of an extreme sat, which is 3.8, you would get 41.2, which is what I would recommend. Ie set it for just a hair above 41, rather than just above 40.
This is just a starting point though, because at this point you'd use USALS and tell the motor to go to AMC5, and peak on the satellite to set this angle.
Once you peak on AMC5, don't touch any of the elevations, and peak on an extreme sat rotating the whole mount on the pole while bumping the motor east/west, and you will be done.