Wave Frontier Toroidal T-90 Satellite Dish

[buck12]

have you ever tried picking up the atlantic birds with your T90. I was wondering with the second reflector if you could get enough signal strength from those sats. Do you know where you kind find the polarity of the atlantic birds. There is proably somebody pullling the altantic birds on here with some kind of dish. I'm in VA and according to lyng sat I'm still in the area to be able receive a signal. It would be nice to be able to pull everything horizon to horizon. I haven't rounded up all my parts to put my T 90 up yet. How many lnbfs do you have on it now. Any problems in running that many lnbfs with your receiver.

[Iceberg]

Originally Posted by buck12

have you ever tried picking up the atlantic birds with your T90.

being in MN and where the dish is mounted, my LOS cuts out at 61. On my roof (the motorized is there) the LOS stops around 50 so I can't check.

I was wondering with the second reflector if you could get enough signal strength from those sats.

as long as there is a footprint to the US< it will work

Do you know where you kind find the polarity of the atlantic birds. There is proably somebody pullling the altantic birds on here with some kind of dish.

www.lyngsat.com has the info

I'm in VA and according to lyng sat I'm still in the area to be able receive a signal.

as long as there is a footprint this way, it should work

It would be nice to be able to pull everything horizon to horizon.

you would need more than one for atlantic & the rest. the T90 only has a 40 degree arc

How many lnbfs do you have on it now.

11 total
72,74,79,83,85,89,93,97,103 for FTA
107.3 & 111.1 for StarChoice subsription.

It is possible to get 2 degree spacing on the ends of the bar but not in the middle.

Any problems in running that many lnbfs with your receiver.

not really. The max I can do is 8 (a diseqc 4x1 with a 22k on each input)

[Iceberg]

Since it has been nice here in MN (40 today which is balmy) this past weekend I decided to tweak the T90 and add a couple more LNB's. Also wanted to test the limits of some of the 2 degree issues that the T90 has. Technically they say you can't get 2 degrees due to the brackets and the LNB size. Well, I wanted to see if how well I could do 2 degrees.

At the time the dish was aimed at 89 center and LNB's on 72,74,79,85,89,93,97,103,107

But I wanted more

So I moved the dish to 93 (which is my true south) and made sure 74 looked good. Adding 72 to 74 is real easy for me. Just put the holder on and make the LNB's touch. Most of what is on 72 I get. Not as strong as the motorized, but good enough to work. Then I slid down the LNB holder for 79. Then I added a holder to see if I could get 83/85. Locked 85 down strong (thank goodness for test cards) and wedged 83 there too. That is BOOMING. I had 89 & 93 but there hasnt been much on 89 latelly and alot more on 91. So can I get 91/93? Locked 93 in and twisted the LNB holder and bam. the test card on 91 at 80 on the Pansat

Slid 97 into place and I figured "well 101 is so dang strong I can get it with a smaller dish, so I can surely get the strong stuff with it offset". So I aaimed the LNB at 103 and tuned that (including the oddball offset) and locked down. 101 I barely moved and the strogn stuff was at 99. Even RTPi, which is weaker is at 60.

Added 107.3 & 111.1 for my Starchoice sub. Then added 119 for the audio. This took some tweaking as it was off the bar. Found an old piece of trim and cut and bolted to the arm (I had drilled a hole in the slide scale) and had to rig a bracket (I just cut the bottom of the holder off). Nice 90 on all TP's

So now I have 13 LNB's
72,74,79,83,85,91,93,97,101,103,107.3,111.1,119

I have a couple LNB's mixed on the switches. I put 72 V & 119 H together (most audio on Dish is on H polarity) and mixed 101 V & 103 H together. Just have to hook up the cables from the 4x1 diseqcs into the house.

1st picture is the whole thing
2nd pic is 101/103 (I had to shave a little off the plastic cap for 101
3rd shows the "Extension" for 119
4th is from 72 going down the line
5th shows 91 & 93

[Sadoun]

Very nice pictures and great setup. It doesn't look like you had to shave a lot of material of the LNBFs to get them close together.

[Iceberg]

101 was the only one so far. 91/93 worked great (it might have to do with being almost dead centre...93 is my centre one)

I might have to shave off some to try and get 89/91/93

[dancuban]

hi goldberg nice pictures if i must say so. i'm new to this forum but i've been testing for about a year now. i read about the t90 some time ago an i was interested in getting one, now that i read your post an seen your setting and pics, i'm going to get a t90 for myself to see what more sats i can add to me list. keep up the good work.

[Pansatpro]

Ice your dish is cool... I want one too! But Sadoun seems to be out of stock. I guess everyone liked your dish so much they all bought one too. Hope they get some more soon.

[vze59zgb]

Originally Posted by Iceberg

So all and all I am very happy with the dish. Other than the obstacles I had aiming it I had fun, learned a lot, and now can watch various satellites with only one dish

I still love the fact I can put 10 LNB's on one dish without compramizing signal

nice set up ice got g 10 here in new jersey 33 winegard dish
signals very good 75 89. have 3 receivers and 3 dishes 36 got them from sadoun t7 25 also good signal running through switches very fast changing . that set up you did is great lots of luck to you pete.

[Pansatpro]

I found myself a T-90 and put most of it together. I want to install in to the side of my TV Tower next to the house so I’ve been working on fabricating a solid mount system... this dish does have some good weight to it! This is my tower... the T-90 will mount to it just above the roof line.

[dst1000]

So when will Sadoun have the T90 back in stock?? If not who has them CHEAP $$$

[evsinfla]

Im trying to set up my Toroidal 90. I really want to use it to get some FTA. Just sick of trying to put in codes every day. I feel the best SAT's to start with are 97 and 123. Galaxy 25 and Galaxy 10R. I bought a Birdog to help with finding the SAT's. I first got a Toroidal 55 and was unable to get any linear SAT's so I called Emailed Wave Frontier and they said I needed the larger dish to get the linear SAT's. Said they need to be so many inches to hit any of the SAT's that require a linier LNB. So now I have the T90 and found 110 and 119 fairly easily, however I'm still not having any luck finding 97 or 123. I bought my LNB's off ebay from mx-mart they claim these can be used to recieve 97 and 123, however when I try to locate these SAT's I'm not finding anything. Wave frontier gave me the positions on the bar. I moved it up and down swivelled the LNB and still nothing. Do I need to use the Z20L that they reccomend to use? or is there something else I should be doing?

[boz]

Originally Posted by evsinfla

Im trying to set up my Toroidal 90. I really want to use it to get some FTA. Just sick of trying to put in codes every day. I feel the best SAT's to start with are 97 and 123. Galaxy 25 and Galaxy 10R. I bought a Birdog to help with finding the SAT's. I first got a Toroidal 55 and was unable to get any linear SAT's so I called Emailed Wave Frontier and they said I needed the larger dish to get the linear SAT's. Said they need to be so many inches to hit any of the SAT's that require a linier LNB. So now I have the T90 and found 110 and 119 fairly easily, however I'm still not having any luck finding 97 or 123. I bought my LNB's off ebay from mx-mart they claim these can be used to recieve 97 and 123, however when I try to locate these SAT's I'm not finding anything. Wave frontier gave me the positions on the bar. I moved it up and down swivelled the LNB and still nothing. Do I need to use the Z20L that they reccomend to use? or is there something else I should be doing?

Nix the "entering codes" talk here please.

As to your problem, I'm running a T90 also and I suspect that you are still having problems with the dish alignment. The DBS satellites are so powerful that they'll illuminate enought of the circular LNBs to get a signal even when you are off by a degree or two on elevation. The lower-powered linear birds aren't so forgiving.

I'm not running any special linear LNBs. Just standard run-of-the-mill Universal units I've had for years.

[evsinfla]

With the birdog with only 97 programed into it and with only one linear lnb on the arm of the wave frontier set right at zero, I can find 97 no problem. I can find the point where the maximum signal can be found. On the birdog the signal reads about 197 this is not enough to "lock on". Is there a difference between a standard linear lnb and a universal lnb? Or do I need a lnb with a lower noise figure? Wave frontier says to use a Z10L or Z20L so I ordered one, But I'm afraid when it comes it won't work either. I have a magnetic elevation meter on the back of the dish where its supposed to go and the numbers for the angle seem to be right. Its not real exact but should be real close. Plus the birdog just confirms its where its supposed to be. I saw some linear lnbs with a noise figure of .2db is this something i should look into?

[satesco]

Hi Iceberg,

Congratulation for your toridale antenna.I want to know what kind of diseqcs you used to link all lnb at your toroidal:2/1,4/1 or 8/1?If you can put a photo with these switches I would be very glad.
thanks in advance,satesco

[Iceberg]

The T90 is down right now but at the time it was 4 4x4 multiswitches and 4 4x1 diseqcs

[Tom0000]

1. Instead of shaving your LNBF maybe you can try to use other one with smaller feed.
Inverto is manufacturing not bad LNBFs
Inverto.tv
The feeds of silver line are true small (the picture is not showing true).
The better view is here:
Hollex.pl : Single-pojedyncze : Konwerter Inverto Silver Tech Single 0,2dB

The silver line is maybe not the best what we can buy. The satkurier is anouncing in next paper version tests of new inverto black line , which will be true breakdown in LNBF construction .
SATKurier.pl / Produkty / Od lipca konwertery Inverto Black Ultra

2. Multiswitch ... standard will be good too. Lets look here :
EMP-Centauri
and here:
http://www.emp-centauri.cz/pdf/Profi_line_168.pdf
or in shop
Hollex.pl : Prze³±czniki : Prze³±cznik DiSEqC 8/1+1 Wavefrontier

The version V2 is especial for diseqc 1.1 users because it is not working with diseqc 1.0. It means you can connect it with standard cheap diseqc 1.0 in cascade. This is 8x4 = 32 LBNFs to connect. This is for wavefrontier and all your rest dishes.

3. Thank you for your comments and pictures. I will buy this dish too , but I have thought which LNBF should I buy to receive sat in 3 degrees space.
I have thought about golden interstar
Hollex.pl : Quad-4 tunery : Konwerter GI-204S Quad Platinum X
but I see now, the feed is too big and max what I can set only inverto or one inverto, one interstar , one inverto ...

The positions like 4w5w or 10e9e are to receive using one LNBF . I think it should have big feed for collect more signal from the dish.

[TexRedNK]

New to FTA, but gleaned a lot of info from your post! Recently bought Sadoun's M-2 system and still working out details with the Mercuty II receiver. At least now I know what signal strengths to expect with my motorized dish.
Two questions: 1st: Should I upgrade to a better receiver ? I like the menus and the Power-Scan features in the Mercuty II , but seems to be some problems with the DiSEqC positioning signals. I am using USALS positioning signals instead. 2nd. Would I gain a lot by upgrading to the 90 CM dish. If so, can I still use the DG-280B HH-Mount ?
SO GLAD guys like you and others on this forum are sharing your brains with us newbies. So far, I'm really enjoying the hobby and watching the NETWORK guys screw up on RAW feeds !! Especially then the guest DOES NOT go along with the Host's talking points !! I usually watch the Host's tele-prompter screen on FTA and the Guest's reply on DTV .
73s, George

[Tom0000]

Originally Posted by TexRedNK

Two questions: 1st: Should I upgrade to a better receiver ? I like the menus and the Power-Scan features in the Mercuty II , but seems to be some problems with the DiSEqC positioning signals. I am using USALS positioning signals instead. 2nd. Would I gain a lot by upgrading to the 90 CM dish. If so, can I still use the DG-280B HH-Mount ?

The only what has sense this days is enigma (or enigma2). I do not know your current receiver but nothing else has comparable functionality.
I have not heard about blind scan plugin for enigma, but it can be written for new hardware.
Do you need DVB-S receiver? The best will be dm7025 with enigma2 or dm7020 or dm600 with enigma or reelok 400 or compatible hardware from others. If it has to be DVB-S2 current day is only dream dm800. The ipbox9000 or katherin are not bad , but enigma for both does not exist today and we do not know when it will be ported.
Many people are waiting all time for dm8000.

The other receiver has sense to buy only (!) if multimedia functionality has no value for you.

[Muad'Dib]

Originally Posted by Tom0000

2. Multiswitch ... standard will be good too. Lets look here :
EMP-Centauri
and here:
http://www.emp-centauri.cz/pdf/Profi_line_168.pdf
or in shop
Hollex.pl : Prze³±czniki : Prze³±cznik DiSEqC 8/1+1 Wavefrontier

The version V2 is especial for diseqc 1.1 users because it is not working with diseqc 1.0. It means you can connect it with standard cheap diseqc 1.0 in cascade. This is 8x4 = 32 LBNFs to connect. This is for wavefrontier and all your rest dishes.

This switch is crappo. Some dealers have seized selling them because of their bad quality.
The only useful option is an ASAT 10/1!! It can be easily added to SUR 410.
Imagine the possibilities...

Stay away from cheap diseqc switches!

Also, anyone knows that ALPS LNBs are the best choice for reception with 3 degrees space. You can also adapt the LNB holders or create your own ones.

[Tom0000]

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

This switch is crappo. Some dealers have seized selling them because of their bad quality.
The only useful option is an ASAT 10/1!! It can be easily added to SUR 410.

Spaun-s equipment has very bad separations and it can not be used in set with 2 or more receivers. I know it because I am owning one spaun 4/1 commited and one 4/1 uncommited switch. The uncommited is working good only if you will not connect to it twins or quads or connects commited switches with big separations.

At this moment I am not beleiving you in your revelations. I will wait the info from you, what in 8/1 is "crappo". I will check it in mine and will verify.

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

Also, anyone knows that ALPS LNBs are the best choice for reception with 3 degrees space. You can also adapt the LNB holders or create your own ones.

Alps ? I have 1 LNBF alps (finger) and 2 alps with bigger back body (olders). I can compare all alps only to LNBFs 10 years old. All alps are "crappo" now.
I can say more , the modern trash LNBFs from unknown manufactures with lying info about 0.1dB noise are better.

This is verified info by me, not the read somewhere presumptions. The ALPS is the worst choice I can imagine now. The more worst can be only using LNBFs from old (10 years or more) dish.

I have one sharp 180A (the newest "finger") and I can say it is noticable worse than inverto (white). The silver inverto has to be more better.
But of course golden interstar should be better than both sharp and inverto. The only problem is with size of its feed.

More info about my dish is here :
SKYsunSAT :: Triax multifeed

[Muad'Dib]

Man, I have a Triax Unique Multifocus myself and if you have problems with ALPS LNBs (Made in Japan!) then you have set up/installed something wrongly or a bad LNB!!
Besides, ALPS are not made for receiving problematic satellites anyway.

If youhave problems setting up SPAUN equipment then you maybe have bought/set up the wrong components, because their stuff simply works.

Originally Posted by Tom0000

Spaun-s equipment has very bad separations and it can not be used in set with 2 or more receivers. I know it because I am owning one spaun 4/1 commited and one 4/1 uncommited switch. The uncommited is working good only if you will not connect to it twins or quads or connects commited switches with big separations.

At this moment I am not beleiving you in your revelations. I will wait the info from you, what in 8/1 is "crappo". I will check it in mine and will verify.

Alps ? I have 1 LNBF alps (finger) and 2 alps with bigger back body (olders). I can compare all alps only to LNBFs 10 years old. All alps are "crappo" now.
I can say more , the modern trash LNBFs from unknown manufactures with lying info about 0.1dB noise are better.

This is verified info by me, not the read somewhere presumptions. The ALPS is the worst choice I can imagine now. The more worst can be only using LNBFs from old (10 years or more) dish.

I have one sharp 180A (the newest "finger") and I can say it is noticable worse than inverto (white). The silver inverto has to be more better.
But of course golden interstar should be better than both sharp and inverto. The only problem is with size of its feed.

More info about my dish is here :
SKYsunSAT :: Triax multifeed

[Tom0000]

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

Man, I have a Triax Unique
Besides, ALPS are not made for receiving problematic satellites anyway.

And this is it. Why to buy alps if much better LNBFs are better and often cheaper.

What about your switch 8/1 revelations?

[satesco]

After a week and so,i succeeded to put a toroidal T90 with 16lnb,as you can see.All satellites received are beaming for Europe:







I used 4 switch 4X4/2-diseqc 1.0 and 1 switch 8/1 diseqc 1.2.

[Muad'Dib]

Originally Posted by Tom0000

And this is it. Why to buy alps if much better LNBFs are better and often cheaper.

What about your switch 8/1 revelations?

Sorry, had to laugh when I read your Q.
Simply because only ALPS have made rocket feed LNBs...........

[Tom0000]

Satesco,
this is what I want to accomplish too. My LNB bar is in locksmith now. He will extend it 20cm from each end.
I want to try something additional and connect 12.5w and 53e. I am not sure if it will be possible , but I will try. (I have a strong signal on 65cm dish from 53e.)

The 9/7/5 mounting seems to be very interesting. Could you show us more specific picture ? You have cut standard mount and used metal one but I do not see how have you connected it and what is this metal part.
Is this metal tape connected to plastic mount using a screw ?
Now I have to decide if I will wait for ultra line LNBFs or will buy at once some silvers. I am planing to use 8 quads , 8 twins and additional twins or singles on extended part of bar.

Are you able to receive something from 7W ? It is not possible in my country on this dish but 8W will not be a problem.

Do you have you any problems with your 8/1 switch ? (Is it viper/wavefrontier?)

[Muad'Dib]

2 degrees is no problemwith special handmade solutions.
You can find some at dxtv.de ...

[Tom0000]

I do not know the german. I have found there the solution of using metal holder mounted to neighbour LNB. It looks like 2.5 degrees solution. Satesco has done it much better.
If the same solution is talked aboud on this forum, please give me a link or german words for use suchen.

[Muad'Dib]

You maybe mean this:
linky

[Tom0000]

mistake posting

[Tom0000]

Thanks. The pictures in zip file . Interesting , but I will try using original holders.

The position: 9e,7e,4.8e ... all 3 sat-s have strong signal , especial 4.8e (the strongest one in my country, it does not have to be in center), 9e should not be in 9e but in 9.5e because it has to receive 10e too. It looks like only 7e should have not standard holder.

I have selected the sat-s by the strength (only by beam possible to receive using T90):
Very Strong - selecting LNBF type and ideal centering not critical:
W: 15, 12.5, 5/4, 1
E: 4/4.8, 7, 9/10, 13, 16, 19.2, 23.5, 28.2/28.5, 31.5, 36, 39/40, 45, 53
Standard - there should be paying attention during mounting:
W: 8
E: 21.5, 33, 42
Very poor - get special attention:
E: 26 (maybe except new one sent to space this month)
Not possible to receive:
W: 7

The big problem I see with 31.5 and 33. The 33 has to be in center , but 1.5 degree seems to be too much to receive in one LNBF.
The sets with smaller distance than 3 degrees:
15W - 12.5W - no problem , 15W should be not possible to receive in this configuration
4.8E,7E,9.5E - talked earlier (not standard mount for 7E)
19.2E,21.5E,23.5E,26E,28.5E - astra1 does not have to be in the center, 21.5,23.5,26 all have to use not standard mount
31.5E,33E - I do not know now what can be done with it, maybe LBNF with very wide feed for 33e will be the best solution for it ?
42E,45E - I hope 45 is enough strong and the position on the arc makes it enough twisted to mount both in standard holder in 2 degree distance