SM3D12 Mal-functions

[rckowal]

PMB1010 & Sadoun. Thanks for the ideas, they're appreciated. I know that many motor problems can be caused by cable, connector or switch defects so that was the first thing I checked.

However, for what ever it might be worth; my coax is CommScope Quad Shield RG6 - top quality stuff as used by Comcast Cable company here. Connectors are the best water proof T&B Snap&Seal compression fittings installed using professional Paladin tools. The connections are sealed with Teflon dielectric water proofing filler, then externally covered with CoaxSeal to keep water & air out. I've already disconnected & re-checked so I know nothing has happened to them.

I doubt very much that this is anything other than a motor issue. I'm so certain that my motor/cable installation is free of any defect that I'd be willing to bet a months pay to have some one prove me wrong. If this is a connection or cable issue - it's probably within the motor, rather than in our cables or switches.

Originally Posted by pmb1010

they seem OK.
Guess I'll need to disconnect them, scotchbrite the threads and/or see if they allowed moisture in the connectors,and got gunked up. I'm not prepared at this time to replace the line. It's good stuff, 9 months old, from cable company with their compression ends installed by them (nice guy from cable co made me a long piece).

No splitters. The switch is after the motor. If the switch is causing the input side of the motor to get "confused", I suppose it could be the culprit.
Would need to disconnect the LNB input side of motor and see if problem persists.

I'll report back any results, if I get ambitious enough to fight the cold weather...

Tnx,
PMB

[rckowal]

PMB1010, this is the outfit that I bought the battery warmer from. They have stores throughout the country or you can order via internet.

http://www.advanceautoparts.com/

I think JC Whitney in Chicago also sells them on the internet.

Some thing I thought of about the "Do a reference reset from the receiver" suggestions! The receiver will send that command to the motor but if the motor doesn't want to turn (regardless of the reason) it can't respond to the command. "Go to reference" is nothing more than an electronic switch which only works if the motor is capable of turning.

[pmb1010]

>http://www.advanceautoparts.com/

We have this store local. As a matter of fact, we have seemed to have a boatload of autoparts stores pop up all over the place...

>Some thing I thought of about the "Do a reference reset..."

Agreed.

[rckowal]

PMB1010, Just had another "brainstorming" theory about what we may be running into. It's only an idea at this point, but it's better than just guessing.

Although I've never seen this in print, a SatControl "Techie" told me that if the motors rotation was stopped by some external force; or striking a fixed object while it was turning, the motor would stop & it's processor would set that position as a new (end of rotation) limit.

Although the factory says the motor should operate to well below zero, maybe manufacturing variables keep some of them from doing so. Lubricants (grease, oil, etc.) become very thick as they become cold. I wonder if such hardened/thick lube in the gears is seen by the motor processor as being an obstruction to rotation?

If so (and the motor tries to rotate against that restriction) it would set that position as a new limit. Then, if the rotation was reversed it might see that as a new opposite limit. At that point, you would have two new limits that were only a degree or so part. We would probably see this as a failure of the motor to rotate at all.

Some motor users up in Canada (that I've been in touch with) swear by the need to use warmers on their motors. We have some really cold weather coming our way so I'm going to have a chance to test this theory using the warmer.

[pmb1010]

Originally Posted by rckowal

would set that position as a new (end of rotation) limit.

Interesting.

If you read back, my troubles started when I attempted to go to G10R, which is not available to me during the summer. I only tried to go there after the leaf cover dropped off the trees.... The max I go to the west is 110ish. Thats when the thing started to jam and cause me trouble.

Again, seems awful silly for motor sold/manufactured/developed in EU to have temp troubles like this. If it comes to the point where I need to replace it, I'll take it apart and find out the real story.

[rckowal]

Again, seems awful silly for motor sold/manufactured/developed in EU to have temp troubles like this. If it comes to the point where I need to replace it, I'll take it apart

It also occured to me that you & I may be in the minority. Maybe we got motors from a bad batch - who knows??? So far, there have been no reports of the same problem on a massive scale in the more moderate climates of North America.

By the way, I had the motor warmer on last night. Outdoor temp right now is 23 Deg. F & the motor is working ok. I'll post you after I have a chance to run more tests.

Just to clarify: Do I understand correctly that your jamming problem started when you FIRST TRIED to go to G10R from 110 (after only going to 110 for a lengthy period of time)? In other words; it didn't jam against some thing that stopped it. If so, it makes one suspect a possible grease/lube problem in your case as well doesn't it?

[pmb1010]

[quote="rckowal"]

Just to clarify: Do I understand correctly that your jamming problem started when you FIRST TRIED to go to G10R from 110 (after only going to 110 for a lengthy period of time)? In other words; it didn't jam against some thing that stopped it. If so, it makes one suspect a possible grease/lube problem in your case as well doesn't it?

Correct. Wanted to see if could get some signal on G10R and the trouble started...
Dish is clear to move side to side (at this time). When I some snow on the roof (any day now) my east travel might be an issue.

[rckowal]

Here is another post about a "Poor Soul" with SM3D12 motor problems similar to ours.

http://www.sadoun.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3337

[rayydio]

I don't have your type of problem as my SM3D12 works all the time but is up to 1 degree off on a few satellites...not the entire arc, just a couple of birds. I have an Ultra receiver and have tried unplugging it and the motor will not drive to the East limit to reset. I purchased from Sadoun in July. Any other ideas on how to reset?

Jim

[rckowal]

Jim, Reset is used when the motor doesn't rotate at all. Is that the problem?

If you want to adjust (fine tune) the aim on a few satellites, you don't use a reset. You need to go into your receiver antenna setup menu & adjust them individually. Are you using USALS or Diesqc 1.2?

[rayydio]

I am using USALS and the motor rotates fine. The problem is that I seem to be up to a degree off on three or four satellites, not the entire arc. I have tweaked my south sat and both east and west elevations so it tracks the arc fine. My dish is the Fortec 80cm. You guys seem to know this motor inside and out - do you think mine is getting a bit sloppy?

[pmb1010]

Originally Posted by rayydio

I am using USALS and the motor rotates fine. The problem is that I seem to be up to a degree off on three or four satellites, not the entire arc. I have tweaked my south sat and both east and west elevations so it tracks the arc fine. My dish is the Fortec 80cm. You guys seem to know this motor inside and out - do you think mine is getting a bit sloppy?

If you are happy with the arc swing, for these sats that are a bit off, try this:

Go to satellite in question, antenna settings screen. Find active transponder. Click on USALS.
Now you have settings screen for this sat, your Long/Lat.
Go ahead and change the SAT position value by typing on your keypad:
Example: CHange AMC5 from 79 to 78W (dont forget to right arrow for W)
THen MOVE there and see how the transponder quality indicator on the top of the screen acts. If you gain signal, you're nudging it in right direction. If it goes lower, go the other way. You can use "point" steps, too ie: 78.5.

If you go 1 degree below, and above the sat with no improvement, you need to look further (elevation, pole not exaclty plumb, etc) might need to be tweaked.

If you do make the change dont forget to "save" on the way out of the settings screen or it won't take...

Good luck.

[rckowal]

PMB1010,

Temps here got down to zero last night. Motor worked fine with the warmer on it. Also checked operation today with the warmer shut off & air temp about 12 degrees. Worked ok then as well.

I think you're probably in the deep freeze as well. If so, how is your motor doing?

[pmb1010]

>I think you're probably in the deep freeze as well. If so, how is your >motor doing?

Yes, I'm just east of you a couple states away acutally (Western NY). It's been working OK, but then again, I'm not attempting to do anything abnormal (ie: G10R)

Yesteray was 0. Right now, 5.
I prefer the cooler weather but this is too dam cold.

PMB

[rckowal]

I'm with you - this is too cold too quick! On the other hand it's a good time to hit the ham radios.

Glad to hear you motor is working well. Sounds like maybe both of us were victims of circumstance & coincidence - rather than the temperature.

[rckowal]

Hi PMB1010,

For what ever it's worth, I cornered the Tech Support guy at Sat Control about cold weather performance of SM3D12 motors. When I told him about my low temperature testing project, he eventually acknowledged that problems could be expected at zero farenheit.

He commented that thickening of the grease on the gears due to such low temps &/or previous draining of grease from the gears could cause the kinds of problems some of us are running into. He thought the battery warmer was a good idea in climates that regularly get below freezing temps. Additionally, that regularly rotating the motor from one stop to the other would help by keeping the gears lubed (reminds me of your G10 hangs).

[pmb1010]

OK thanks for the info.
Mine's been working fine, but then again the temps have been 30ish.

As you're probably experiencing the same weather as I am, this current weather bout will test the motor in colder temps & snow.

I'm reluctant (but curious) to run the motor over towards G10R to see what would happen.

If things go haywire, I'll put up a new post here.

Best regards,
PMB

[cosanostra]

You guys are not alone. I'm having the exact same problem. I live in Canada and I've been getting grief from this motor ever since it started getting cold in December. Today it even reset itself by moving to the most eastern extremity while I was scanning transponders!

I don't think the malfunction has anything to do with the grease hardening though. I think the ICs which are semi-conductors just don't conduct well in cold weather and send false signals to move the motor. IMO it is a poorly built motor. After 6 months of usage, one of the gears in the gear train had stripped teeth (as explained by someone earlier in this thread) The gears are made out of thin plastic. I replaced it but I'm wondering how long it's going to be until the others strip as well. I hardly move the thing anymore, just too scared it will be the last time it moves at all. Maybe my wife can make use of it to mash the potatoes or something

The battery warmer is a great idea. Going to give that a shot this weekend.

[rckowal]

At $25 (US), the battery warmer is one of the best investments I made on this installation. For me, it's worked without a hitch even down to zero fahrenheit. I have it plugged into a switched outdoor electrical outlet so I can just turn it off when the temps get up to freezing.

Originally Posted by cosanostra

You guys are not alone. I'm having the exact same problem. I live in Canada and I've been getting grief from this motor ever since it started getting cold in December. Today it even reset itself by moving to the most eastern extremity while I was scanning transponders!

I don't think the malfunction has anything to do with the grease hardening though. I think the ICs which are semi-conductors just don't conduct well in cold weather and send false signals to move the motor. IMO it is a poorly built motor. After 6 months of usage, one of the gears in the gear train had stripped teeth (as explained by someone earlier in this thread) The gears are made out of thin plastic. I replaced it but I'm wondering how long it's going to be until the others strip as well. I hardly move the thing anymore, just too scared it will be the last time it moves at all. Maybe my wife can make use of it to mash the potatoes or something :)

The battery warmer is a great idea. Going to give that a shot this weekend.