Aligning Dish with Laptop

[atperson100]

Hi,
I'm thinking about buying a USB DVB-S tuner for FTA to add to my collection... Does anyone have any experience with aligning a dish with this device?
Sadoun's description of the device says its difficult....but how difficult are we talking? Nearly impossible? Or, just, really slow refresh rates on signal strength?


Thanks

[wejones]

Originally Posted by atperson100

Hi,
I'm thinking about buying a USB DVB-S tuner for FTA to add to my collection... Does anyone have any experience with aligning a dish with this device?
Sadoun's description of the device says its difficult....but how difficult are we talking? Nearly impossible? Or, just, really slow refresh rates on signal strength?


Thanks

A bit over a year ago, I bought a Starbox, with that same purpose in mind. I still haven't used it for that purpose. I think that it could work, but since you have to either run a power line out to your dish, or rig up battery power, plus take your laptop outside, it isn't quite as simple as I hoped. I ended up taking out an old STB and portable TV instead, then eventually just got a better signal meter. I think the USB receiver could work for alignment, but like you say, the signal/quality meters have an even slower response than a STB.

One similar option that I tried, (but it didn't work for me), was to try to use the Twinhan card in my desktop computer. Ie I have a wireless network here, and I use a VNC program on my laptop and desktop that allows me to watch the signal strength on my Twinhan (using a program called THMover, which has a relatively fast signal meter). My idea was, that I could just take the laptop only out to the dish, and watch the signal via the wireless network. It didn't work for me though, because my wireless network didn't have enough range, partly because I live in a house with a metal roof, and the WAP is upstairs, and the roof blocks the signal toward my dish. I may still try this method if I can re-locate the WAP. If you use a wireless network with Win2k or XP, and your signal will reach to your dish, I think this is a better option, because the PCI cards are better than the Starbox at least, although perhaps other USB receivers may be better. This option is also easier because all you need is the laptop, no power, no receiver, etc.

[atperson100]

I guess I could always just try it... And if it doesnt work out, buy a signal meter. I'm planning on having the laptop be just a few feet away, so I guess I wouldnt have to deal with the distance and power logistics you spoke of.

Originally Posted by wejones

A bit over a year ago, I bought a Starbox, with that same purpose in mind. I still haven't used it for that purpose. I think that it could work, but since you have to either run a power line out to your dish, or rig up battery power, plus take your laptop outside, it isn't quite as simple as I hoped. I ended up taking out an old STB and portable TV instead, then eventually just got a better signal meter. I think the USB receiver could work for alignment, but like you say, the signal/quality meters have an even slower response than a STB.

One similar option that I tried, (but it didn't work for me), was to try to use the Twinhan card in my desktop computer. Ie I have a wireless network here, and I use a VNC program on my laptop and desktop that allows me to watch the signal strength on my Twinhan (using a program called THMover, which has a relatively fast signal meter). My idea was, that I could just take the laptop only out to the dish, and watch the signal via the wireless network. It didn't work for me though, because my wireless network didn't have enough range, partly because I live in a house with a metal roof, and the WAP is upstairs, and the roof blocks the signal toward my dish. I may still try this method if I can re-locate the WAP. If you use a wireless network with Win2k or XP, and your signal will reach to your dish, I think this is a better option, because the PCI cards are better than the Starbox at least, although perhaps other USB receivers may be better. This option is also easier because all you need is the laptop, no power, no receiver, etc.

[boroda1]

Originally Posted by atperson100

I guess I could always just try it... And if it doesnt work out, buy a signal meter. I'm planning on having the laptop be just a few feet away, so I guess I wouldnt have to deal with the distance and power logistics you spoke of.

My aligning experience with Starbox was not good: it's software is not detecting satellite signal properly, you need to use MyTheatre or ProgDVB. I was trying to do the same as you first, but could not get any signal until I got normal STB.
Same thing about cheap signal meter: it's confusing enough for novice use.
My best aligning equipment is: cheap STB with USALS and BlindScan (like Fortec Lifetime ULtra) and cheap B/W 5" TV set, got it for $15, compare this to Birdog for $439!
I have laptop too, but did not use this Starbox + laptop combination too often. It's still a nice toy though, I am planning try to get some 4:2:2 signal with it.
I will drive my dish to that sat with help of STB, then will use "Loop through" to Starbox.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by atperson100

I guess I could always just try it... And if it doesnt work out, buy a signal meter. I'm planning on having the laptop be just a few feet away, so I guess I wouldnt have to deal with the distance and power logistics you spoke of.

I used another technique for remote alignment that works very well. There's a freeware DVB viewer available that has a nice signal meter that works with different hardware -- I used it with my Twinhan 102g card.

The signal meter has an audio abilty to give you either a signal level or quality via voice. So it will say "Fourty one... Fourty one... Fourty Five ...." etc. as you adjust your antenna. Now you can either use a long headphone extension cord, a pair of walkie-talkies, a cordless phone, etc. to tune up the dish.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the program off the top of my head, but I will post again tonight with the name.

[atperson100]

Originally Posted by Corey

I used another technique for remote alignment that works very well. There's a freeware DVB viewer available that has a nice signal meter that works with different hardware -- I used it with my Twinhan 102g card.

The signal meter has an audio abilty to give you either a signal level or quality via voice. So it will say "Fourty one... Fourty one... Fourty Five ...." etc. as you adjust your antenna. Now you can either use a long headphone extension cord, a pair of walkie-talkies, a cordless phone, etc. to tune up the dish.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the program off the top of my head, but I will post again tonight with the name.

Thanks! This is sounding promising. FYI, the satellite installation will be indoors pointing at a south window.. Window will be open, of course.

[Corey]

DVB Dream is the name of the program. You can get it here:

DVB Dream Development Homepage

Having said that, the meter works well, but the actual video display part of this program didn't not run well on my older system. It seems to use an inefficient mpeg2 codec or renderer or something. I was getting 1 frame per 10 seconds... not exactly full motion video ;-)

All of these programs seem to have substantial flaws, but far and away the best one I've found so far for Windows is myTheatre. But it doesn't have the handy audio meter of DVB Dream.

Good luck and have fun

[atperson100]

Originally Posted by Corey

DVB Dream is the name of the program. You can get it here:

DVB Dream Development Homepage

Having said that, the meter works well, but the actual video display part of this program didn't not run well on my older system. It seems to use an inefficient mpeg2 codec or renderer or something. I was getting 1 frame per 10 seconds... not exactly full motion video ;-)

All of these programs seem to have substantial flaws, but far and away the best one I've found so far for Windows is myTheatre. But it doesn't have the handy audio meter of DVB Dream.

Good luck and have fun

Thanks!! I'll repost here with my results!

[lostinthewoods]

Just to add to the confusion, my method is to connect a piece of coax to the video output of my stb, run it up to roof and connect it to an old monitor that I used back in the Commodore days.
This way, I can watch the signal strength (quality) on the monitor as I tweak the dish.

Lost

[atperson100]

Thats more sophisticated than my method! When I set up an stb, I just had someone scream out the window! Dont have the stb at my location right now, though....

Originally Posted by lostinthewoods

Just to add to the confusion, my method is to connect a piece of coax to the video output of my stb, run it up to roof and connect it to an old monitor that I used back in the Commodore days.
This way, I can watch the signal strength (quality) on the monitor as I tweak the dish.

Lost

[atperson100]

My gear (Starbox and dish) was supposed to arrive today. But, it was delayed. So hopefully, tomorrow, the experiment begins. Tomorrow I will find out if I can:
1) align the dish with the Starbox
2) use the dish pointing out a window

If I can at least get those FTA music channels, that would make the experiment worth it. I suppose that not too bad of a goal, since those are on stronger satellites. Then I want the Equity Mux!!

[atperson100]

Darn! I also wanted PBS HD, but my wall blocks 87W!

[atperson100]

Well, I underestimated the size of the 80cm dish. Ends up the dish is bigger than the open window. Does anyone think that might be a problem?

[Corey]

Just in case you're not already aware of this, the look angle an offset feed dish, like the Fortec etc., types is ~20 degrees above the perpendicular to the plane of the reflector.

So you'll want to put the dish lower than the lower sill of the window, if you can.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by atperson100

Well, I underestimated the size of the 80cm dish. Ends up the dish is bigger than the open window. Does anyone think that might be a problem?

One other off the wall consideration, and I know this will sound crazy, but I'm not sure if the above really means that you intend to have the window open when using the dish, or if that was just a way to describe the window size. But glass is not always transparent to radio, depending on whether it has those high efficiency coatings on them, and metal content. I know on many bands, I get better reception holding radios next to a wall than next to a window. If your walls aren't too thick, you might get better reception through the walls than through the windows. Of course, I'd try the window first, but if it doesn't work, it can't hurt to try through the wall.

There was one fellow on a sat mailing list I used to frequent, who put a 10' C-band dish in his attic, and got some reception through his roof. Being suspicious, I experimented with plywood in front of my dish, and found that if the plywood was fairly close to the feedhorn, that I could get reception through a regular sheet of plywood. Of course, this isn't something you'd want to do, because even at it's best, you might lose over half your signal going through something solid. Best to go through an open window.

[atperson100]

Yes, I was actually planning on using the dish with the window open. The window is slightly smaller than the dish.. Meaning, I could probably fit the dish through the window if I tried.

I wonder if I'd get better luck if parts of the dish was sticking out of the window. (like the lower part of the dish) Can't stick out too much, though, the mount has to stay inside.

So far, it is not working.. I'm hoping it has to do with my alignment. So I bought a signal meter... I'll see if I can get some high powered dbs satellites first.

[atperson100]

Thanks everyone! It works!..Kind of... I got a SF-95c signal meter.. It made it so much easier. My signal on the FTA music channels is 50% quality 50% Level.. Not exactly great... The narrow window openning attenuates the signal so much. It doesn't even work with the blinds down or the window closed! And I thought signals travel through plastic blinds... All that eliminates the Equity mux

[atperson100]

Well, here's one of those "oops" moments... While trying to align for the Equity mux, I didn't realize that I still had the box hooked up to the circular port on the QPH031 LNB!!! No wonder the DBS satellites came in, but nothing else!