Preparing for FTA Installation - Pole Mount

[slotzero]

Slowly learning and gathering knowledge and materials here...

I've read out there on the web that I shouldn't use quikrete to secure my ground pole... anyone agree or disagree with that? Seems that it would be easier but if it causes problems later then, I guess it wouldn't be that great.

Also - what size pole should I be aiming for, 3.5"? This will be for a motorized system with at least a 90cm dish.

Thanks for your input!

[crankbooster]

Originally Posted by slotzero

Slowly learning and gathering knowledge and materials here...

I've read out there on the web that I shouldn't use quikrete to secure my ground pole... anyone agree or disagree with that? Seems that it would be easier but if it causes problems later then, I guess it wouldn't be that great.

Also - what size pole should I be aiming for, 3.5"? This will be for a motorized system with at least a 90cm dish.

Thanks for your input!

A 3.5 pole or less is good it depend on how high you want to go.
If it is not going to be too tall you can use a btw 2"-3'.
Using quickcrete is not easier but faster you can do the whole installation in a day. But what is the hurry! Go for regular mix.

Not sure but a 2-3/8 is what I have seen on some of the U or Pole mounts for 90cm. ?? If this means the avg. not sure. Also trying to figure it out.

Not sure if a pole bigger than 2-3/8 will fit in the bracket, should ?? Might be as the normal wall mount stuff looks a bit flimsy ??
Heighter = bigger / windload and then fitting size ??

Either way hopefully someone will correct me or once the dishes get's here 2 x 90cm I will check and see.

I have seen at my local Home Depot they have 2-3/8 by a bit over 7 feet high fence poles galvanized for about $9 and some small change and was thinking of using this and 2 wall mount bracket for this pole and mounting the while thing on my chimney's side.
About 3 by 4 feet and about 1 m / yard high made from old school clay brick. Cost is about +/- $24 .
Much cheaper than planting. And gets over the top of a distant tree.

I might have to run a few cables and anchor it into the roof like a camping tent's string's / ropes and adjustable tensioners as evrything here moves with the seasons and occasional winds of about 30mph and trim a tree top.

I think someone has mentioned you should look for about a bag 80 lbs of concrete / mixcrete etc. for every foot of the dish size , on the ones closer to a 1.8m size and about 48 hours to set before installing ?? Or the like.

Might have to read up on the way some of the mixes dries and possible weakness / strenght of the finnished product you might want.

Had to splash/sprinkle water on my concrete paving every few hours to stop heat buildup and cracking.

Also you might need a long pipe 10' / 12' and set it ?? 3 - 6 feet into the ground + needed distance about 6' above ground. Have to check on this.

This corn suryp / height above sea level kills my brain cell's LOL or I must be getting old.

Please do check this and verify before commiting.

[slotzero]

Thanks some good things to consider - I'll let you know what I come up with as I check things out.

Thanks!

[rainman]

Originally Posted by slotzero

Slowly learning and gathering knowledge and materials here...

I've read out there on the web that I shouldn't use quikrete to secure my ground pole... anyone agree or disagree with that? Seems that it would be easier but if it causes problems later then, I guess it wouldn't be that great.

Also - what size pole should I be aiming for, 3.5"? This will be for a motorized system with at least a 90cm dish.

Thanks for your input!

my c band dish has been in quikrete since 92 and have never had a problem. the main thing to rememeber is to use 1 80lb bag per 1 ft of dish size.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by rainman

my c band dish has been in quikrete since 92 and have never had a problem. the main thing to rememeber is to use 1 80lb bag per 1 ft of dish size.

I don't see anything wrong with Quickrete either, although I think the amount depends on your soil. My pole is kind of wedged between some very big rocks, so I didn't use that much, but in looser soil, you might even need more. Also important is how deep your frost depth is. It always seemed to me like the holes should be wider at the bottom, but that's hard to do without a form, and I've never done it myself. My dish does move a little bit in the spring, due to frost, but not a serious amount.

I am curious about what the criticism of the Quickrete was on the web? Only problem I've had with concrete was last summer when I tried to use 10 year old concrete that had gotten a bit wet. It just refused to harden, and I had to dig it out and get new concrete.

[crankbooster]

Originally Posted by wejones

I am curious about what the criticism of the Quickrete was on the web? Only problem I've had with concrete was last summer when I tried to use 10 year old concrete that had gotten a bit wet. It just refused to harden, and I had to dig it out and get new concrete.

I am sure he is talking about Quickrete as a brand name but actually refering to the fast setting mix which is just one of quickrete's product.
Quickrete makes all kind if concrete and cement mix.
The fast setting mix tends to crack faster.
it's like metallurgy when you heat up steel to red hot temp. and cool it in water it cools fast ( quenching) but it is hard and brittle but when you allow it to cool in normal air ( Normalising) it is Softer and Ductile.
Sorry about the Technical illustration. I hope it helps

[boz]

I've only set 2 poles in my life, but both times worked out well. The first time I sunk a 3.5" schedule 40 pole for a 8-foot BUD. I used standard concrete on that, and the next time I put in a 2 3/8 galvanized fence pole for a Toroidal 90 dish (fits the mount like a glove). Also used the standard mix. I've never used the fast-setting concrete. I had heard of problems with cracking with the fast set stuff. I like to be able to adjust the pole as the concrete cures. I figure that doing it slowly and correctly will pay dividends, and in both cases, I ended up with dishes that tracked beautifully.

I drilled the base of the poles and put either rods or long bolts through them so they resist twisting. Also, I concrete the inside of the pole at least a few inches above ground level for rigidity. In this last installation with the WaveFrontier T90, I added a motorized Primestar dish just under the T90. I had it tracking all the Ku sats in no time.

[slotzero]

Originally Posted by boz

I've only set 2 poles in my life, but both times worked out well. The first time I sunk a 3.5" schedule 40 pole for a 8-foot BUD. I used standard concrete on that, and the next time I put in a 2 3/8 galvanized fence pole for a Toroidal 90 dish (fits the mount like a glove). Also used the standard mix. I've never used the fast-setting concrete. I had heard of problems with cracking with the fast set stuff. I like to be able to adjust the pole as the concrete cures. I figure that doing it slowly and correctly will pay dividends, and in both cases, I ended up with dishes that tracked beautifully.

I drilled the base of the poles and put either rods or long bolts through them so they resist twisting. Also, I concrete the inside of the pole at least a few inches above ground level for rigidity. In this last installation with the WaveFrontier T90, I added a motorized Primestar dish just under the T90. I had it tracking all the Ku sats in no time.

Yes the cracking problems were what I was reading about... so standard mix it is! Thanks for the note about the bolts through the pole - that answered the question about the easiest way to keep it from twisting.

[slotzero]

Originally Posted by wejones

I am curious about what the criticism of the Quickrete was on the web? Only problem I've had with concrete was last summer when I tried to use 10 year old concrete that had gotten a bit wet. It just refused to harden, and I had to dig it out and get new concrete.

This was the main article I was referring to:

[ Satellite Footprints by Dish Size - Ground Pole Installation, Pad Mount Installation, Wind Loading ]

Looks like some generally good advice.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by slotzero

This was the main article I was referring to:

[ Satellite Footprints by Dish Size - Ground Pole Installation, Pad Mount Installation, Wind Loading ]

Looks like some generally good advice.

That geo-orbit web page is certainly THE best web page for TVRO'ers. I never read that page on there before though. Interesting. I've never had concrete crack, but I must admit that I have no idea of what kind of concrete I have used in the past. It had a name similar to the quickrete, but it sure didn't cure in an hour... it was more like 24 hours. Now that I think, perhaps the brand I used was Sacrete or something like that. It WAS a pre-mixed concrete though, but probably not a fast curing.

Another "questionable" interesting technique that the DTV people use, is to use some quick setting concrete that you don't mix ahead of time. I saw the DTV guy dig a hole, (not even close to the frost line), put the pole in, dumped DRY concrete mix in there, then asked me for a bucket of water, which he dumped in, held the pole for about 10 minutes, and was done. I guess though that for a DTV dish, you don't even need concrete, so I guess it isn't necessary to spend a lot of time on it, but I was surprised at how they did that. I've never seen anyone do dry un-mixed concrete before. I read about it once, but never saw it.

[boz]

Originally Posted by wejones

Another "questionable" interesting technique that the DTV people use, is to use some quick setting concrete that you don't mix ahead of time. I saw the DTV guy dig a hole, (not even close to the frost line), put the pole in, dumped DRY concrete mix in there, then asked me for a bucket of water, which he dumped in, held the pole for about 10 minutes, and was done.

I bought one of the plastic "Odjob" mixer buckets for my small projects like the satellite poles. I recommend them. Just pour in the premix, add water, screw on the lid, kick it around the yard for a couple minutes and pour it.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by boz

I bought one of the plastic "Odjob" mixer buckets for my small projects like the satellite poles. I recommend them. Just pour in the premix, add water, screw on the lid, kick it around the yard for a couple minutes and pour it.

or let the kids at it for a few minutes.LOL

[Reinhold]

I have used premixed concrete dry without adding any water.
If you tamp it as you go like a fencepole set in dirt,(compacting it) it is solid as soon as you fill the hole.The concrete will absorb moisture from the ground and the setting of the concrete is like a bonus.I have seen drymix used in construction many times.It is almost as good as mixed concrete.
Reinhold.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Reinhold

I have used premixed concrete dry without adding any water.
If you tamp it as you go like a fencepole set in dirt,(compacting it) it is solid as soon as you fill the hole.The concrete will absorb moisture from the ground and the setting of the concrete is like a bonus.I have seen drymix used in construction many times.It is almost as good as mixed concrete.
Reinhold.

Interesting. I guess I'm surprised, because whenever I've mixed concrete, I've always ended up with pockets of dry concrete that the water didn't get to, and I guess I just assumed that if the concrete around those pockets hardened before water managed to get in there, that it would never get water, and never harden. Particularly if you use fast drying concrete. Last summer, I tried using some 10 year old concrete to put in my 3' dish. I think a little water had seeped into the bags, and the outside 1/4" had hardened a bit in the bag, but it was still "seemingly" loose nd powdery inside, so I broke it up, and tried to use it. But it didn't work at all. It was just like putting the pole in wet sand. It never hardened. Only think I can figure is that over the years, the concrete cured very slowly, one grain at a time, not sticking to the adjacent grains, so even though it still looked like un-cured concrete, it in fact was like cured concrete powder.... if that makes sense. Anyway, that's interesting that the dry technique actually works.

[rainman]

Thats why I wait to pour the concrete before I pick it up at the hardware store never had any luck using old concrete.