Do I tweak Dish Elevation setting?

[rumproast_face]

Hi all, ...

Happy almost New Years ...

Well, wanted to toss out my first post about installation support:

I have the motorized system w/36" dish from Sadoun. everything appears to be set up a-o-k.

When I input my lat/long in the Fortec (Lifetime) setup, and then move east and then west, I see no improvement in the quality bar.

Should I then go right ahead and tweak the dish elevation setting up and down slightly and retry?

Or can I simply change the value of, say, my longitude by a tenth of degree and scan again?

I'm in my office at the moment, so can't quote exact readings, ... but I'm a seasoned (solo) backpacker, and I work in construction, so my familiarity with readings such as compass, level, plumb, direction, hot coffee, etc., are second nature.

My pole mount is perfectly plumb. I'm in Santa Rosa CA; 38.44 N .... Hmm, .. forget the other #'s ... well doesn't matter ... just wanted to pop this on the board for starters.

I should add: that my dish elevation reading (23 something, .. I think??) may not possibly be perfect? That's because it did not come with that pointy guide thing ... only that oblong 2-holed metal plate that goes under both fastener.

So I set the dish elevation "parallel" the the setting for my mark ...

Geez, hope that came out clear ...

Thanks guys,

"My name is Rumproast_face and I approve of this message"

rrf

[wejones]

Originally Posted by rumproast_face

Hi all, ...

Happy almost New Years ...

Well, wanted to toss out my first post about installation support:

I have the motorized system w/36" dish from Sadoun. everything appears to be set up a-o-k.

When I input my lat/long in the Fortec (Lifetime) setup, and then move east and then west, I see no improvement in the quality bar.

Should I then go right ahead and tweak the dish elevation setting up and down slightly and retry?

Or can I simply change the value of, say, my longitude by a tenth of degree and scan again?

I'm in my office at the moment, so can't quote exact readings, ... but I'm a seasoned (solo) backpacker, and I work in construction, so my familiarity with readings such as compass, level, plumb, direction, hot coffee, etc., are second nature.

My pole mount is perfectly plumb. I'm in Santa Rosa CA; 38.44 N .... Hmm, .. forget the other #'s ... well doesn't matter ... just wanted to pop this on the board for starters.

I should add: that my dish elevation reading (23 something, .. I think??) may not possibly be perfect? That's because it did not come with that pointy guide thing ... only that oblong 2-holed metal plate that goes under both fastener.

So I set the dish elevation "parallel" the the setting for my mark ...

Geez, hope that came out clear ...

Thanks guys,

"My name is Rumproast_face and I approve of this message"

rrf

Assuming the motor angle is set right, then run the thing to your due south sat (G10r) using USALS then tweak the dish elevation until you peak the quality. Also peak by moving the whole mount back and forth on the pole. Then move to a sat to the east, and again peak, but only by moving the whole mount on the pole.
Make sure your receiver is on an active transponder when trying to peak though, and make sure your antenna setup for G10r is set up to match the LO freq of your lnbf.

[elgemcdlf]

The Fortec dishes are pretty famous for being off roughly 5 degrees plus or minus. Depends on the mount. The 80cm's usually need to be 5 higher than calculated and so far the 90cm's appear to be in the 5 lower range. Again this depends on the mount. The calculated values are a starting point. Simplistically dish elevation sets the shape of the arc. Flat and wide or high in the center and narrow. Motor elevation sets the location in the sky of the arc.

[rumproast_face]

Captains log stardate 701.459

Whoa man, news here:

Took off to be home today ... been playing with my dish; hooked up my satellite meter to help, and 'Poof' .. got a big needle jump at one point .. played a bit with adjustments, went back inside and whew, I have this one channel called "Tan TV 4" (I think ,,,?) on my screen in absolute beautiful clarity ... very distinct and clear picture, and sound.

However, me thinks I'm way off course with my original assumed settings, because this is on AMC 4, and I (along with my receiver) had expected to be scanning G10. The receiver thinks it's G10.

So, ... hmm, .. it's a good start however ... I ought to be able to carefully retrace my settings to a correct reference alignment.

Tan Tv 4 comes through perfect ... though no other transmissions do. It in Korean (where's that older brother of mine who is fluent in Korean when I need him!!)

Question: Having established this [one] clear reception now, can I then assume that my dish elevation is now properly set?

I ought to be able to [manually] swing the dish east-west to establish proper alignment(s) with other satellites? correct?

Very cool equipment!

Thanks,

the "rump"


rrf

[rainman]

sorry but no you are hitting amc 4 when you should be hitting g10r so elevation will be different.when using a motor you first need to get signal on you true south sat then use usals to move to the other sats.your dish maybe to high to hit g10r move dish to where you think it is then lower the dish a little.

[rumproast_face]

Thanks! for that information.

So, I presently have a curious question:

Though I tried again to zero in on G10, I only get marginal levels ... but I am now, however, able to pick up a bunch of AMC 4's channels.

Hey, that's cool!

(Problem may be this palm tree off in a yard a few homes away ... I assumed it was not an issue ... but perhaps it is .. I may have to haul the whole setup onto my roof after all .. right now it's on my back deck).

But::: my question:

If I can pick up frequencies very accurately from AMC 4, then can I correctly conclude, that the setup is truly aiming at 101 degrees West?

If that's the case, then can I therefore use *that* point as a reference, and navigate from there?

I've directed the dish to do so, from my Fortec setup, but, after it gets to IA5, for example, I do not get appreciable levels.

Must your intial reference be at the true south?

Thanks!

rrf

[rainman]

Originally Posted by rumproast_face

Thanks! for that information.

So, I presently have a curious question:

Though I tried again to zero in on G10, I only get marginal levels ... but I am now, however, able to pick up a bunch of AMC 4's channels.

Hey, that's cool!

(Problem may be this palm tree off in a yard a few homes away ... I assumed it was not an issue ... but perhaps it is .. I may have to haul the whole setup onto my roof after all .. right now it's on my back deck).

But::: my question:

If I can pick up frequencies very accurately from AMC 4, then can I correctly conclude, that the setup is truly aiming at 101 degrees West?

If that's the case, then can I therefore use *that* point as a reference, and navigate from there?

I've directed the dish to do so, from my Fortec setup, but, after it gets to IA5, for example, I do not get appreciable levels.

Must your intial reference be at the true south?

Thanks!

rrf

it makes it easier did you use the motor to move to amc 4 or did you just move the whole thing on the pole to receive it if it is the later then your south adjustment is off also your elevation would be off plus your skew on the lnb.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by rumproast_face

Thanks! for that information.

So, I presently have a curious question:

Though I tried again to zero in on G10, I only get marginal levels ... but I am now, however, able to pick up a bunch of AMC 4's channels.

Hey, that's cool!

(Problem may be this palm tree off in a yard a few homes away ... I assumed it was not an issue ... but perhaps it is .. I may have to haul the whole setup onto my roof after all .. right now it's on my back deck).

But::: my question:

If I can pick up frequencies very accurately from AMC 4, then can I correctly conclude, that the setup is truly aiming at 101 degrees West?

If that's the case, then can I therefore use *that* point as a reference, and navigate from there?

I've directed the dish to do so, from my Fortec setup, but, after it gets to IA5, for example, I do not get appreciable levels.

Must your intial reference be at the true south?

Thanks!

rrf

Nice theory but alas no. Your receiver believes it is pointed at G10R so everything is relative to that and not to AMC4 so... First mark the mast with a marker for your present location. You know you are pointed east approximately 22 degrees off. With the receiver pointed at G10R rotate the entire assembly on the mast to the west about 1/16 the way around the mast (that would be 22.5 degrees) now you are pointed to low in the sky for G10R. You are tracking an arc that moves lower on both sides of true south so to see 101 well when the motor is pointed at roughly 0 you are to low. Raise your dish elevation about 5 degrees and slowly rotate the assembly east to west if you find nothing raise dish elevation another degree or so and repeat. If you run out of patience point it back at 101 (remember we marked it) and watch Korean until you are ready to try again

[rainman]

and by the way Happy Birthday rumproast_face.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by rainman

it makes it easier did you use the motor to move to amc 4 or did you just move the whole thing on the pole to receive it if it is the later then your south adjustment is off also your elevation would be off plus your skew on the lnb.

What Rainman asks here about using the motor is significant. In theory, if you haver run the motor via USALS to AMC4, and then peak via moving the whole assembly on the pole and fine adjustment of the dish elevation, it IS possible to use AMC4 as your reference, however it is much less accurate, and will probably take more fine tuning to get it working.
Basically, there are 3 three things you are trying to adjust.
(1) your motor elevation. This can be done good enough using the scale on the motor. Set this then leave it alone.
(2) your declination. This is via the dish elevation.
(3) your mount MUST be pointing true south.

If you had run the motor to AMC4 first, before finding it, then your peaking can get you pretty close to both (2) and (3) in one step. The problem is, that the further you are away from your true south, the more your dish elevation will be moving your aim horizontally, ie doing much the same as your moving the mount on the pole. Ie the two adjustments will interact instead of being independent, so the peaking doesn't accomplish anything. It is MUCH better to do your dish elevation peaking on your true south sat, because only there will it be unaffected by adjustment (3).

However, if you HAVE run the motor to AMC4 first before finding it, it might get you close enough to then find your true south sat, or at least one closer to it, and you can start over from there. But if, as Steve said, you still have your motor centered, and have not moved it, then the motor still thinks it is aiming at your due south sat, and everything will be WAY off.

[rumproast_face]

Good!

It just became clear in my head just why it needs to reference at south; now I understand.

Thanks for those replies and I see now how the dish needs to not only rotate here or there, but must also obey the "arc" as it does ...

... be easier, I suppose, .. on a flat earth, ... no?

Yes, it's perhaps not feasible to actually reference to some other satellite for starters. Probably "technically" possible I guess, but not really in any practical sense.

Thanks for the Happy Birthday wishes!

This dusty, crusty 55-year older is gonna poke around and hunt for G10r

Geez, I'm afraid I may have to roof-mount after all ... ah, no big deal.

rrf

[rainman]

Originally Posted by rumproast_face

Good!

It just became clear in my head just why it needs to reference at south; now I understand.

Thanks for those replies and I see now how the dish needs to not only rotate here or there, but must also obey the "arc" as it does ...

... be easier, I suppose, .. on a flat earth, ... no?

Yes, it's perhaps not feasible to actually reference to some other satellite for starters. Probably "technically" possible I guess, but not really in any practical sense.

Thanks for the Happy Birthday wishes!

This dusty, crusty 55-year older is gonna poke around and hunt for G10r

Geez, I'm afraid I may have to roof-mount after all ... ah, no big deal.

rrf

good luck with it rumproast.

[elgemcdlf]

Something else that takes place when using a motorized system is skew of the lnbf. So as your dish travelling along the arc it is also rotating on center thus skewing the lnbf for the location you are at. So when you were at 101 and the lnbf skewed at 0 you basically (not an exact number) were also 22 degrees off in skew of the lnbf. This may be why you could not see SBS6. You should have been able to see everything east of your location if your dish elevation and motor elevation were correct just pointed at the wrong sat.

[rumproast_face]

His "Royal Rumpness" reporting back in ...

Well, I've been up on the roof, putting the assembly up there. Did all my alignments and double-checking ... connected everything, and used my satellite meter, and I found a very strong signal about where I think G10r should be.

I tweaked the dish elevation and the direction of the assembly ...

I have a vast clear view from up there, so I expected to get a signal without too much trouble.

Now the interesting part:

Back down "on earth" in the livingroom, my receiver does not recognize any signal, even when I scan G10r ... any of its transponders ... that was curious, perhaps, I thought, I'm tapping into a nearby bird ...? ... but I could not tell what it might be.

Maybe I'm not truly zero-ing in on G10r ... the whole assembly did appear to need a slight coaxing left-ward (to the east) to grab the signal ...

I'm heading back up after I get home from work today, but my main question was: just because my satellite meter displays a strong signal, is that or is that not a guarantee that I'm pulling in "something" that should show up on my receiver?

I'm in the Bay Area, so I'm trying to get Galaxy 10 for starters; those channels on AMC4 that I picked up from my back deck setup were crystal clear, but I had to re-install the whole shebang up on the roof to aim true south.

As always, Thanks!

rump roast face