Can't find signal

[redmag]

Good Morning. I am a new user-purchased my Fortec Star Classic material the other day..Got immediate delivery...thankyou...have installed the wires, dish and the receiver. We have tried to adjust the antenna to the correct elevation and azmith...the LBNF knob has no degree marks in it...how do I adjust it to 18.7 so I can hopefully get a signal. It is set at UNI... have been working on this project for at least 5 hours yesterday, wife is ready to strangle me... also had a tech come over to try his hand in it and he couldn't do it... So here we are...full of equipment but no picture. Any help is appreciated

[rainman]

welcome to the forums list all of your equipment dish ,lnb, motor etc. also list you zip code or latitude and longitude and somebody will be able to help you better.

[bobkat]

Also tell us what satellite you are trying to bring in, assuming you don't have a motorized system.

kat

[boroda1]

Move that LNBf as far away from dish as you can.
From Sadoun's "help with stationary dish" page, copy how it should be turned, clockwise or counter-clockwise. If you set it to 20°, still OK. Just imagine a protractor. Or clock: 360/60 = 6, so set it as 3 - 4 min. past/before the hour

[be236]

This is reminiscent of my problems when I first hooked up my Fortec dish.

First make sure you have a known good RG-6 cable. I had a situation where my cable was good when connecting to regular TV (off-air antenna), but when I used it for satellite, it didnt work. I had to use an ohm-meter to confirm that I did NOT get good connectivity at the two ends... I swapped out with another cable and it worked.

Next, the actual problem for me turned out to be the dish elevation itself.

I found out my 80cm Fortec dish was 5 degrees "off." Hence when I go to a site and it says my elevation for a sat should be aimed at 29 degrees (using the markings in the back of the dish assembly), I had to add an extra 5 degrees to that, so 29 + 5 = 34 degrees elevation and I was able to pick up the sat with good signal.

Give this a try.. just raise your dish 5 degrees higher than what you think it should be...

[matt_in_abq]

Hi all,

I'd like to chime in and add that I'm having the same issue. My signal LEVEL never gets above the 0-4% range, while I can manage up to 45% signal QUALITY. I have had this happen on IA5, Galaxy10, and Galaxy11.

Can someone help to explain the difference between signal LEVEL and QUALITY? I've tried searching in the forums, but have not found an answer to that.

Moreover, it seems to me (from reading this particular thread) that folks normally see higher signal level *before* the see high quality. Is this true? If so, seems like I'm (or possibly my receiver is?) doing something wrong.

I'm starting to get frustrated with this alignment thing. This marks about 4 or 5 hours that I've been fooling with it, and I've been able to lock ZERO channels. I'm plumb and level, and my SF-95 will squeal fairly loudly (I know that's a relative statement, but I've positioned IA-5 as best I can according to the SF-95, and I still get no signal level).

Hopefully someone out there has some sage advice for Said and I.

Thanks,
Matt

[satnutwillb]

Correct,most people get signal first,then quality.These are the first I've ever read about quality,but no signal. Someone that might have had this problem before might be able to list the cause.

[N4ST]

Originally Posted by matt_in_abq

...
I'm starting to get frustrated with this alignment thing. This marks about 4 or 5 hours that I've been fooling with it, and I've been able to lock ZERO channels. I'm plumb and level, and my SF-95 will squeal fairly loudly (I know that's a relative statement, but I've positioned IA-5 as best I can according to the SF-95, and I still get no signal level).

Your signal strength vs. quality readings sound very strange. Wonder what kind of receiver you are using?

I had a devil of a time with IA5 (I'm also a newbie). I know there are those on this forum that can pick up IA5 with a second LNB duct-taped, hose-clamped or tied to their primary LNB, but I could never get that to work (even with two bullet LNBs). Even without the dual-LNB approach I could only get 40%-45% quality on IA5 after half-hour of nudging the dish with a system that pins at 99% quality on the AMC4 transponders. Try picking up AMC4 (It seems to be very strong and easy to find) to build up confidence in your manipulation of the dish and receiver.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by matt_in_abq

....
Can someone help to explain the difference between signal LEVEL and QUALITY? I've tried searching in the forums, but have not found an answer to that.

Moreover, it seems to me (from reading this particular thread) that folks normally see higher signal level *before* the see high quality. Is this true? If so, seems like I'm (or possibly my receiver is?) doing something wrong.

...

Basically signal "level" is just a voltage corresponding to the total detected signal that the receiver sees. Signal level can be from any source, not just from the sats, but noise from power lines, from the sun and stars, from airplanes, from microwave towers, or just from structures radiating energy. "Quality" on the other hand requires that the receiver is actually seeing an mpeg2 signal and is calculating a signal to noise ratio and/or error rates, etc.
Not only do most folks normally see higher signal levels "before" seing quality, but most of us see signal all the time, even if the dish is aimed at the ground. And most of us don't see quality until we are locked, or almost locked onto the sat signal. You really can't have quality without signal, because quality is a measure OF the signal. However different receivers have different scales for signal and quality, and it may be that your receiver has chosen some non-zero signal level, and assigned that a "zero" value, sort of like the Fahrenheit temperature scale, which assigns "zero" as some arbitrary value, which is in reality a positive temperature.
On MY receivers, I typically ignore signal level, and use quality to tune in the sats, but you see so many questions here and on other forums from people saying "I have signal, but no quality", that perhaps on this receiver, the manufacturer tried to make it user friendly by cutting back the somewhat meaningless signal indication, so that if a signal is indicated it is real. And possibly their "quality" figure is not calculated in the same way as other receivers, but actually includes more of a contribution from signal level, so that it can show a reading at the first indication of any meaningful signal???? Just a guess. But my initial thought is that there is something wrong with the receiver, or the receiver's firmware.

[matt_in_abq]

Well, thank you wejones, will, and N4ST for your responses. I probably shoudl have mentioend the equipment I'm using. The receiver is a Fortec Mercury II--nothing strange. I simply ordered one of the basic motorized packages from Sadoun (SG-2100 motor, 80cm dish, . I did upgrade to a dual FSKU LNB, but they only sent a single in the mail...kind of disappointed by that, but at this point, I could care less...all I want is to pick up ANY channel at this point.

Ummm...I guess at this point I will try N4ST's recommendation of looking up AMC4 first. Any other good sats/tps that I should be looking for?

[pmb1010]

Matt ,
you must follow specific setup instructions for motorized system.

Can you provide your zip code, and give us a somewhat detailed explanation of what you did to initially lineup your system?

[matt_in_abq]

My setup so far has been according to the book. Of course, everyone always says that...of course I've never made a mistake in my life! (sarcasm) But I do believe I followed everything to a tee, to include the following:

1. in assembly, I was sure to set the SG-2100 to the proper declination (=30 - ~6 degrees or so (can't remember the exact value at the moment)). I'm in Albuquerque, ZIP 87114.

2. in alignment, I've verified that my mounting pole is plumb and level.

3. after attaching the dish/motor assembly to the pole, I've used the supplied compass to align it 170 deg (180-10) as best I can. The compass is affected by metal, so I stand just a few feet away and align the dish assembly as best I can with 170. (I would like to rest the compass directly on the pole itself to get the most accurate reading, but alas, physics won't let me). Now of course, this could be a source of error...I realize that this could be a weak link...my eyeball alignment is only so good, and I could easily by 1 deg off. BUT....

a) I've aligned it dozens of times, and I feel pretty confident in it, and
b) even with what I've described above, I just can't imagine (and I say that knowing full well that I'm a rookie) that alignment here is the biggest issue. I've come upon three different satellites that are showing me 40% or so quality, and I can't pick up ANY channels, or ANY signal level. Given what wejones has said above, most people pick up some signal level even looking at the ground.

I'll note that somehow I accidentally posted my original question on another thread (in addition to this one), and Sadoun replied by saying that the Mercury II receiver is not supposed to go above 0-4% until you get within 1 deg of the proper satellite, then both it and quality will start to show. But I am getting quality with no signal level.

OK, all that and I still probably didn't provide much of a hint for anyone.

One more question...what is the lowest quality level that one can generally lock in a station with? 30%? 40%? 50%? Should I have reason to believe that I should lock something showing betweem 30-40% quality?

Thanks once again!

[satnutwillb]

It's may not be the same for all receivers.I can get a lock at 30ish on my pansat,but I have read some say it takes a higher quality level on theirs.Some have reported getting a lock with lower levels.I have picked up a ch. before with a 20 something level and not get a lock on some with a 30 something level.I don't know how that is,but maybe some of the others can explain that. Hope this is of some help.

[rainman]

it is different for each receiver satnut with my satworks I can get a decent picture in the mid 30's but with the ultra it needs to be in the mid 40's to be a stable picture. you said you set your sg 2100 Matt to 30 minus 6 degree declination I hope you meant you set you dish to this because the motor needs to be set to your latitude.

[pmb1010]

One more question...what is the lowest quality level that one can generally lock in a station with? 30%? 40%? 50%? Should I have reason to believe that I should lock something showing betweem 30-40% quality?

Is there an "info" button? Press that while on what you think is a station.
At least on my Ultra, it shows a stacked bar graph of the connection information, and it has a "lock" indicator.

In regards to #3 in your post, it is not the weakest link - getting your south compass heading perfect. The reason is you want everything pointing at your mag south, with the motor in the center "zero", then you MOVE using USALS to the highest South Sat. Your motor will not move much. Now you adjust the whole contraption on the pole side to side, and the dish elevation till you get locked in on that Sat.

The issue is USALS does a lot of the work for getting your motor lined up in the right spot on the pole. Fine tuning of course is necessary.

As said in the last couple posts, getting your motor scale to your Latitude is important, as it should not be adjusted once set.

I find it very peculiuar that the Mercury II does this with signal levels - gives you higher "quality" indication before "signal" indication. That just doesnt make any sense, and seems to contradict all the previous models of Fortec on how they display signal lock. I was hoping to "win" the free Sadoun giveaway a couple months ago, just to see how this Mercury operates. I have 2 receivers already (one's back in the box) and a 3rd is just not in the picture (pun intended...) for me at this point.

Well good luck. Getting these to link in the 1st time can be a very frustrating experinece.