Aiming problem or ?

hoster · #1 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 03:05 PM

Hello all,

We are new to this great hobby FTA.
We are "TRYING" to get our FIRST system working.
We have a open spot for the IA5 Sat.
We are using a old mounting pole that was used foe a 10 foot c-band dish it plumb and perfect.

We are setting up and non motor right now.
We are using a brand new SatHawk 3000 meter.
We have a 36 inch dis and .4 LNBF

We are located in Wisconsin 53186

We are using settings of EL=39.6 and AZ=193.1, and Tilt= 9.3 CC

Ok as far a what I am getting on the SatHawk it var from 15-23 accross the whole sky.

All thes parts are new.

I am wondering if I have a bad LNBF.

Any ideas out there it real cold and a little snow here today???

Rich

rainman · #2 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 03:27 PM

all of you settings look good just move the dish east and west slowly to get a signal if no signal change elevation on dish by a degree up or down and try east to west again continue repeating the steps till you get a signal lock. and welcome to the forums.

wejones · #3 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoster

Hello all,

We are new to this great hobby FTA.
We are "TRYING" to get our FIRST system working.
We have a open spot for the IA5 Sat.
We are using a old mounting pole that was used foe a 10 foot c-band dish it plumb and perfect.

We are setting up and non motor right now.
We are using a brand new SatHawk 3000 meter.
We have a 36 inch dis and .4 LNBF

We are located in Wisconsin 53186

We are using settings of EL=39.6 and AZ=193.1, and Tilt= 9.3 CC

Ok as far a what I am getting on the SatHawk it var from 15-23 accross the whole sky.

All thes parts are new.

I am wondering if I have a bad LNBF.

Any ideas out there it real cold and a little snow here today???

Rich

Unlikely that you have a bad lnbf, it's possible but 99% of time it's just that the aim is off. If you're using a compass, you need to add about 2-3 degrees to that azimuth. Aim at that azimuth as close as possible, and make very slow adjustments up and down with the elevation. Don't try changing the azimuth until you locate some point where there is a signal peak. I'm not familiar with that meter, so I can't help with that.

hoster · #4 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 03:34 PM

Hello wejones

I have tried all that so far and still nothing.
I guess if ir was not so cold here today and not snowing that would help.
I am going back out in a bet and see what is upp here.

Rich

hoster · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 03:35 PM

Hello rainman

I will give it another shot here after I warm up a bit.

Thanks for the info.

Rich

reho33 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 04:34 PM

Make sure that you have an active transponder like AMC3 at 87 west 11716 TiP TV very strong.

hoster · #7 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 04:38 PM

Hello

I will give it a try and see if that will work.

Thank for the info

Rich

elgemcdlf · #8 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 08:40 PM

Also verify you have the lnbf skewed in the correct direction. When you do find signal scan it in and determine what sat you are actually looking at. From there it should be easy to adjust.

rainman · #9 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 07:34 PM

also if you are using a fortec 90 cm dish the elevation scale has been off on them 3 to 5 degrees. I had to set mine 5 degrees lower than was recommended just a thought.

hoster · #10 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 07:41 PM

Good morning rainman

Can't you use a angle meter on the lnbf support arm and get the proper reading?

The other issue is having a hard time understanding the use of the compass when you are around the metal dish, it will not be c9orrect. With fiberglass dishes it is different.
How do you use the compass Ino it is a stupid question.

Rich

elgemcdlf · #11 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 07:51 PM

Just stand back away from the dish

By the way fiberglas dishes are only a covering for a metal mesh

rainman · #12 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoster

Good morning rainman

Can't you use a angle meter on the lnbf support arm and get the proper reading?

The other issue is having a hard time understanding the use of the compass when you are around the metal dish, it will not be c9orrect. With fiberglass dishes it is different.
How do you use the compass Ino it is a stupid question.

Rich

angle meter on lnbf arm don't really give you a accurate reading. also remember the angles in the caculation charts are just a starting point you will have to change them some to get the best signal.

hoster · #13 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 10:26 PM

Morning

I'll try again today and see where I get.

Thanks for your info provided.

Rich

wejones · #14 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoster

Good morning rainman

Can't you use a angle meter on the lnbf support arm and get the proper reading?

The other issue is having a hard time understanding the use of the compass when you are around the metal dish, it will not be c9orrect. With fiberglass dishes it is different.
How do you use the compass Ino it is a stupid question.

Rich

Unfortunately, there is no surface on these little offset dishes that seem to relate to where the dish is actually aiming.
I'm not sure from the above whether you are talking about the portion of the lnbf arm that is directly behind the dish (which is close but not exactly the same as being perpindicular to the apparent aim of the dish), or the portion between the bottom edge of the dish and the LNBF. The former comes close to being useful, assuming that you know the offset angle accurately (and while you can look up the offset angle, I'm convinced that each dish is slightly different, due to irregularities in the way the bracket attaches to the dish), however the latter isn't even close. It's often stated that the true center of the parabolic surface is just below the bottom edge of the dish, so it seems intuitive that the lnbf support arm would be roughly aiming pretty close to the direction that the dish is aiming. However, when I measured this on my 90CM dish, it wasn't close. I aimed at something with a 43 deg elevation, and an inclinometer on the support arm indicated 32 degrees, ie an 11 deg difference.

Since these small dishes don't need nearly the aiming accuracy of a bigger dish, it SHOULD be possible to get near perfect alignment without ever tuning a satellite, just by using an inclinometer, if only there was some surface on the darn things to measure from. However, from the best that I can determine, there is no suitable surface.

And BTW, there are numerous posts here about how to use the USNO solar tables to determine true azimuths using shadows, if you are confused about using a compass. It's more accurate than a compass.

elgemcdlf · #15 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 11:15 PM

I actually have found that placing an angle finder on the portion of the lnbf support arm that is on the back side of the dish to be quite accurate and when I tried it had signal right away. Was not great signal but had signal.

hoster · #16 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 11:19 PM

I am going to try that and see if that may work it sounds like a good idea maybe.

Thanks

Rich

wejones · #17 (**permalink**) 11-03-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

I actually have found that placing an angle finder on the portion of the lnbf support arm that is on the back side of the dish to be quite accurate and when I tried it had signal right away. Was not great signal but had signal.

When you did this, you obviously couldn't have just used the reading on the inclinometer directly. Did you add/subtract the published offset angle or something? Which dish did you do this on? On my dish, this bracket is close to being perpindicular to the apparent aim of the dish (not the actual aim), but I've seen pictures of some other dishes where the back bracket isn't even close to being parallel to the dish surface, but is instead attached nearer the bottom of the dish instead of being centered. So I think that using this technique in general would not be at all reliable, unless you really studied your dish before hand.

elgemcdlf · #18 (**permalink**) 11-04-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wejones

When you did this, you obviously couldn't have just used the reading on the inclinometer directly. Did you add/subtract the published offset angle or something? Which dish did you do this on? On my dish, this bracket is close to being perpindicular to the apparent aim of the dish (not the actual aim), but I've seen pictures of some other dishes where the back bracket isn't even close to being parallel to the dish surface, but is instead attached nearer the bottom of the dish instead of being centered. So I think that using this technique in general would not be at all reliable, unless you really studied your dish before hand.

Well it is a Fortec 90cm dish with the U-Bolt mount. It is mounted to a