Need installation Help, New FTA user

be236 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-11-2006, 10:58 PM

Hi,

I'm near Seattle, WA, zip 98037. I bought the Fortec Classic NA system here with LNBF and 80CM dish.

I installed the mount and think its plumb.

I cannot get any signal on IA-5. It show a signal of 0 to 6 %. I tried to aim at 126 deg west and 29.9 deg elevation.

The instructions for setting up the system is very poor, the docs dont tell you how to install the LNB. How close does the LNB and the ring that holds it need to be and how tight? I read somewhere that the ring must be very tight or the LNB doesnt work?

Also, I skewed the LNB to - 21 %, but there is no reading or meter line on the LNB itself, so I just guess it and turned it slight to counterclockwise.. Also there is no instruction to do this. It is the basic Universal KU LNB from Fortec, does it need to be turned skewed still?

In any case, I am just guess at this point to aim near the 126 deg west azimuth and have adjusted it slightly left and right but still cant get a signal....

Help?

Andrew

elgemcdlf · #2 (**permalink**) 10-11-2006, 11:57 PM

Ok let's start with basics. Is this a motorized system? If yes the lnbf is installed as far back in it's mount away from the dish with the connector for the coax pointed straight at the ground when the motor is at 0. If not then yes it is very important the lnbf be skewed correctly for the sat desired. It would also be installed in the mount the same as the motorized.

The mount needs to be tight enough to hold the lnbf from moving around. No more is required. Look again at your lnbf. Most all I have seen have some form of marks on them for adjusting skew. You would be best to purchase one of the little "squeelers" from Sadoun. It is a very inexpensive sat locator. This will help you find signal. The settings you will find at www.sadoun.com under the technical support area.

These settings are a starting point. They are usually very close but many have found the 80cm dish off about 5 degrees on the scale. Needing to set 5 degrees higher than calculated setting. That comes from the motorized installs. Do not know if it applies to stationary installs or not.

You also need to be searching for signal on an active transponder for the sat. You can find that info at www.lyngsat.com

Upon looking up your location I find your dish should be set at 29.8 (you are close enough), AZ at 130 ( 4 degrees is 2 sats away) and the skew is 21.1 but rotated clockwise not counterclockwise.

be236 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 12:45 AM

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback. My system is non-motorized (it's the basic Fortect system sold here)... as for skew, yes, I meant to say I turned it clockwise about 21 degrees (about 5 minutes on the clock hand) .. this I am eye-balling of course. Again, looking at the Fortec LNBF, I see no mark that gives any "skew" reading..

I thought that a "Universal" LNBF meant that it didnt require a skew adjustment .. I guess I am wrong...

Also, the LNBF is tighten good, but I can still turn it no problem.. should it really be tighten further so I can hand turn it? So, I just need to put the LNBF as far from the dish has possible, right?

And my mount is as plumb as I can get it (using a level)... so I am currently guessing the azimuth around 126 deg west, and for the elevation, I am using the red mark on the back of the dish for the degree to adjust.. does all these setting assume that the dish was assembled correctly and tighten?

Back to azimuth, I have a cheapo compass and since it's so small, and I trying to guess how to point the dish to that 126 deg west as shown on the compass..hopefully this is good enough...

Could the LNBF be bad? Or maybe I am missing something obvious in the receiver set-up?

Andrew

be236 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 01:47 AM

Hi,

You wrote:

You also need to be searching for signal on an active transponder for the sat. You can find that info at www.lyngsat.com

Can you explain this? I simply go into the Setup section page and it just shows my signal at the bottom of my Fortec screen.. There is a "transponder" line, but I just leave the default.. are you saying that I must change that value to an active transponder per that Lyngsat page, since that signal is tuned to a particular transponder, and not all of the satellite itself?

Andrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

Ok let's start with basics. Is this a motorized system? If yes the lnbf is installed as far back in it's mount away from the dish with the connector for the coax pointed straight at the ground when the motor is at 0. If not then yes it is very important the lnbf be skewed correctly for the sat desired. It would also be installed in the mount the same as the motorized.

The mount needs to be tight enough to hold the lnbf from moving around. No more is required. Look again at your lnbf. Most all I have seen have some form of marks on them for adjusting skew. You would be best to purchase one of the little "squeelers" from Sadoun. It is a very inexpensive sat locator. This will help you find signal. The settings you will find at www.sadoun.com under the technical support area.

These settings are a starting point. They are usually very close but many have found the 80cm dish off about 5 degrees on the scale. Needing to set 5 degrees higher than calculated setting. That comes from the motorized installs. Do not know if it applies to stationary installs or not.

You also need to be searching for signal on an active transponder for the sat. You can find that info at www.lyngsat.com

Upon looking up your location I find your dish should be set at 29.8 (you are close enough), AZ at 130 ( 4 degrees is 2 sats away) and the skew is 21.1 but rotated clockwise not counterclockwise.

satnutwillb · #5 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 03:21 AM

If the transponder that you are seeing in set up isn't showing any quality,then pick one off of the satellite you're tuning on lyngsat that is active.Enter it into your receiver and make small adjustments to elevation and side to side until you start to see the quality bar start to show some quality.Once you receive quality for that Freq.and SR.,just peak it for the highest reading you can get.Scan it and compare with the chs.listed on lyngsat to see if they are the ones listed there.Hope this helps some.

elgemcdlf · #6 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback. My system is non-motorized (it's the basic Fortect system sold here)... as for skew, yes, I meant to say I turned it clockwise about 21 degrees (about 5 minutes on the clock hand) .. this I am eye-balling of course. Again, looking at the Fortec LNBF, I see no mark that gives any "skew" reading..

I thought that a "Universal" LNBF meant that it didnt require a skew adjustment .. I guess I am wrong...

A universal lnbf has a wider range of freq. Name has nothing to do with skew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

Also, the LNBF is tighten good, but I can still turn it no problem.. should it really be tighten further so I can hand turn it? So, I just need to put the LNBF as far from the dish has possible, right?

The lnbf should be pulled back as far as it will go in the mount. When tight it should bot be moveable in it's mount.

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

And my mount is as plumb as I can get it (using a level)...

As plumb as I can get it does not mean it is plumb. With a stationary install it is not critical but it will make your life much easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

so I am currently guessing the azimuth around 126 deg west, and for the elevation, I am using the red mark on the back of the dish for the degree to adjust.. does all these setting assume that the dish was assembled correctly and tighten?

Yes and I get a reading of 130 not 126.

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

Back to azimuth, I have a cheapo compass and since it's so small, and I trying to guess how to point the dish to that 126 deg west as shown on the compass..hopefully this is good enough...

Again the sat you are looking for is not at 126 it is at 130.

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

Could the LNBF be bad? Or maybe I am missing something obvious in the receiver set-up?

Andrew

Post your settings in your receiver. Just a note here. All settings are critical. You will NEVER see the sat you are looking for if you are 4 degrees off.

be236 · #7 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 04:46 PM

AH, ok.

Ok, but when I am still adjusting it's not completely tight. Once I can get a signal, then I will really tighten it up.

Really? I used an online calculator and with my zip code of 98037, trying to get IA5 (aka Telstar5), it shows it's at 147 deg. then I have to subtract my magnetic deviation for my area of (- 21 deg), so 147 - 21 = 126 degrees on compass, no?

I just leave the default settings on my Fortec Classic NA receiver for IA 5 ... Using UNI LNB setting and the first/default transponder setting when trying to get my signal level on screen....

Andrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

A universal lnbf has a wider range of freq. Name has nothing to do with skew.

AH, ok.

The lnbf should be pulled back as far as it will go in the mount. When tight it should bot be moveable in it's mount.

Ok, but when I am still adjusting it's not completely tight. Once I can get a signal, then I will really tighten it up.

As plumb as I can get it does not mean it is plumb. With a stationary install it is not critical but it will make your life much easier.

Ok..

Yes and I get a reading of 130 not 126.

Really? I used an online calculator and with my zip code of 98037, trying to get IA5 (aka Telstar5), it shows it's at 147 deg. then I have to subtract my magnetic deviation for my area of (- 21 deg), so 147 - 21 = 126 degrees on compass, no?

Again the sat you are looking for is not at 126 it is at 130.

Post your settings in your receiver. Just a note here. All settings are critical. You will NEVER see the sat you are looking for if you are 4 degrees off.

be236 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 05:15 PM

Hi,

I have doubts with my aim at IA5 with two issues.

1. The back of the dish assembly as the angle listings and I line up the red mark to say the 30 deg listing, but how accurate is that? Assuming I am plumb, it doesnt seem to be an exact setting, meaning I am guess I could be off by 2-3 degrees on either side, meaning even if I set it at exactly 30 degress, the aim of the dish could be 33 degrees or 27 degrees and due to this variation, even if I have to azimuth correct, I would never see IA5.. D'oh.

2. As for azimuth, I have a little (toy) compass that is the size of a big quarter and not sure of its accuracy. When it is steady it does seem to point to magnetic north as I would expect and then I look at what 130 (or 126 deg) would be and because compass is so small, how can I extrapolate to aim the dish (left or right) to that direction? Do I just make a guess at the LNB arm in that direction? At that right I could be off easily by 20 degrees or more of the 130 deg that I want.. d'oh...

-Andrew

wejones · #9 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

Really? I used an online calculator and with my zip code of 98037, trying to get IA5 (aka Telstar5), it shows it's at 147 deg. then I have to subtract my magnetic deviation for my area of (- 21 deg), so 147 - 21 = 126 degrees on compass, no?

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp

This will give you 17 deg 36 min , not 21 deg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

I just leave the default settings on my Fortec Classic NA receiver for IA 5 ... Using UNI LNB setting and the first/default transponder setting when trying to get my signal level on screen....

As a couple people suggested, you need an active transponder. There is no way to get a reading for the satellite, you have to tune in a transponder that is transmitting, and the transponder lists in the receivers are often out of date, and if the freq and SR values aren't nearly exact, you will get nothing. I just verified that the first 3 vertical Ku channels at Lyngsat are active, ie
11749/7232 , 11789/25000 and 11836/20765

If your first default transponder is one of these, then you are OK. If it is not, either choose one of the above, or tell us what it is, and we'll check to make sure the transponder is active. It's kind of like trying to tune in your TV on channel 5 if your city doesn't have a channel 5. You need a transponder with something on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

As for azimuth, I have a little (toy) compass that is the size of a big quarter and not sure of its accuracy. When it is steady it does seem to point to magnetic north as I would expect and then I look at what 130 (or 126 deg) would be and because compass is so small, how can I extrapolate to aim the dish (left or right) to that direction? Do I just make a guess at the LNB arm in that direction? At that right I could be off easily by 20 degrees or more of the 130 deg that I want.. d'oh...

-Andrew

Someone posted a sun outage calculator a while back, ie:
http://www.satellite-calculations.co...lc/SUNcalc.htm
You should still be within the outage period. Enter your location, and choose the proper sat, and it will tell you what time the sun is coming from behind the sat in question. This will provide a fairly accurate azimuth. It won't help on the elevation, but for that, you'll have to move your dish up/down a bit to search for the signal. Before searching for the signal though, wait for the sun to go by, for 10 minutes or so.

It was funny, I tried using my little dish yesterday, for the first time in a few weeks, and I got almost no signal. I thought the thing had gotten out of alignment, until as I was watching it, the signal grew and grew... Turns out I just happened to turn it on exactly during a sun outage. What are the odds of that.

be236 · #10 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 11:37 PM

Hi,

Today I just went out and tried to adjust again. I was able to position it to get 26% signal strength.. that's as good as it got, I tried to turn the dish up and down slightly and left and right slightly, but that is it..

My receiver is set to IA5, transponder #1, for some reason transponder #2 and #3 still showed 0-6% strength, so I am not sure I am really aiming at IA5.

Anyways, looking at that pointed direction, I see a bunch of fir/cedar trees from afar and they seem high, at up to 30-45% angle at the top of the trees... Since my evelation is rated at 30%, does this mean that I am getting partial signal thru and that's why I cant get more than 26% strenght?

If so, sounds like I need to move my dish position to higher location or somewhere else...

Andrew

be236 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 11:40 PM

Also, I got my magnetic deviation from here:

http://www.emantechnology.com/Lookangle.asp

Enter in 98037 and you'll see it shows 21 degrees.. d'oh... OH, well, I went to your site and it shows 17 degrees.. ok, I can use that...

Andrew

elgemcdlf · #12 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 08:35 AM

Trees. I love trees. Sat signals do not go through trees though

If you are indeed looking at a tree you will either need to clear the tree or move the dish.

rainman · #13 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

Trees. I love trees. Sat signals do not go through trees though

If you are indeed looking at a tree you will either need to clear the tree or move the dish.

I agree Steve I lke trees but I like satellites better so I just cleared 2 trees where i wanted to set my 8.5 birdveiw dish.

wejones · #14 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be236

My receiver is set to IA5, transponder #1, for some reason transponder #2 and #3 still showed 0-6% strength, so I am not sure I am really aiming at IA5.

It seems like like you are still talking about transponder numbers on your receiver which is meaningless. People have suggested checking with Lyngsat, to make sure that you are looking at an active transponder, but I have yet to see you indicate what freq/SR you are looking at, so I can only assume that you are looking at a freq where there is no signal to see.

Again........ what frequency and SR value is your receiver set to. You are completely wasting your time if you don't tune to an active transponder.