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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:12 AM
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Thumbs up I finally got a lock!! (UPDATE)

System info:
90 cm dish (elevation set to 5°)
uni lnb
Digipower sg-2100 (motor elevation set to 33°)
fortec star lifetime classic NA
175° True south (IA5)
Location: 32.856502 N, 96.599882 W

I cannot get any signal lock,also i cant even find a satellite...

I have had no luck. What am I doing wrong

Last edited by MasterChief : 09-27-2006 at 01:04 AM. Reason: upd
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterChief
System info:
90 cm dish (elevation set to 5°)
uni lnb
Digipower sg-2100 (motor elevation set to 33°)
fortec star lifetime classic NA
175° True south (IA5)
Location: 32.856502 N, 96.599882 W

I cannot get any signal lock,also i cant even find a satellite...

I have had no luck. What am I doing wrong
It can be frustrating. Looking at Sadoun's chart for dish elevation, the SG2100 table shows dish elevation set to 30 -declination angle. The popup table gives a dec angle of 5.38 for your location. That yields a dish elevation of 24.6 degrees approximately. I'd change your 5 degree angle to about 25 degrees on the dish bracket, and try again.

On the antenna setup screen of your Classic, set the lnb freq ( local oscillator) to 10600 for north american Ku band birds. If you've never done this before, you may find it easier to setup your dish as a standalone unit, without the motor, until you feel comfortable that you can use your receiver correctly to aim a dish.
My advice would be to take the receiver and TV out to the dish with you, and watch all the interaction as you try small adjusments.

Hope this helps, get back on your progress.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:58 AM
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as brent stated your dish elevation is to low re adjust to his spec.then mark your pole and motor so you know where your starting point is then move dish east and west 1/16 th of a inch at a time to get signal.if no signal change elevation up or down 1 degree and try east to west again,continue to you get the best signal,remember slow movements snd allow 15 seconds for the receiver to see changes after each move. good luck and happy hunting.
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Undien 4600,DSR 922
Fortec Ultra, Satworks 3618
2 Fortec Mercury II
Fortec Classic NA
8.5' Orbitron polar C Ku dish
8.5' Birdview HH C Ku dish
100cm Fortec dish
90cm Fortec dish
2 DG-240 HH motors
Co Rotor II feed horn
Norsat 8515 C band lnb
Norsat 4506A Ku lnb
BSC-621-2 Lnbf
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:14 AM
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Buy one of the little "squeelers" from Sadoun. It is a very inexpensive sat finder. Place it inline and find a sat. Blind scan the sat. Identify the sat. Adjust accordingly.
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Old 09-18-2006, 12:19 PM
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Here it is http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Order/Signal-Meters.htm
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Old 09-18-2006, 05:21 PM
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still no luck... I dont know what to do.
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Old 09-18-2006, 05:42 PM
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just stay with it MasterCheif you will hit it when you least suspect it. also try 20 degrees on your dish elevation my 90cm was suppose to be 24 degrees ended up at 19 degrees.
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Undien 4600,DSR 922
Fortec Ultra, Satworks 3618
2 Fortec Mercury II
Fortec Classic NA
8.5' Orbitron polar C Ku dish
8.5' Birdview HH C Ku dish
100cm Fortec dish
90cm Fortec dish
2 DG-240 HH motors
Co Rotor II feed horn
Norsat 8515 C band lnb
Norsat 4506A Ku lnb
BSC-621-2 Lnbf
Invacom QPH-031 Lnbf
Invacom SNH-031 Lnbf
Fortec Fsku-v universal Lnbf
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Last edited by rainman : 09-18-2006 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterChief
still no luck... I dont know what to do.
Chief:
Patience is the watchword of the day; the FTA installation process can be very frustrating, but also very rewarding. As others here will attest, I struggled with my setup for months before everything fell into place (as it turned out, I had a bent dish which made the process much harder).

First, do all the usual "housekeeping" things:

Make sure all connections are snug, that you're using good quality RG-6 cable (I found that some of mine wasn't designed to pass the higher frequencies used on sat receivers). I know it may seem incredibly obvious, but make sure you've connected your cables to the proper jacks on the motor and on the back of the receiver.

Recheck that your mounting pole is plumb. Use a small "torpedo" level rather than an angle-finder. I've had angle finders be off by a couple of degrees and others have reported the same thing.

Double check that what you believe to be "true south" really is--some magnetic declination maps on the web are terribly out of date; use this resource:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp
to get literally "up-to-the-minute" magnetic variations. Besides the compass method, consider finding out when true local noon is. Some good resources for this task are: http://www.netdave.com/wa0ttn/NoonCalc.asp
and, http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html
Once you know "true noon", check to see if your LNB arm points at the sun as it passes at that time. You can sight along the arm (use good eye protection to prevent retinal damage), or better yet, tie a string to LNB arm with a small weight and watch the shadow as the sun passes at true local noon. You can then set your motor to the zero reference and move the whole assembly--dish, motor, LNB to point to the estimated true south. Mark the mast and mounting bracket so you can return to this starting point.

Once you're set to what seems to be true south, you may still be off a few degrees. After you set your motor to the zero reference, if possible use USALS in your receiver to drive the motor to IA5. If this is your "true south" satellite, the motor should only move the dish a very short distance.

Haul a small TV and your receiver out to the dish and connect it with a short length of coax cable. On your receiver's antenna setup screen, choose IA5 and pick an active transponder (11836 V will probably be a good choice, but there are plenty of others on lyngsat.com).

Loosen the dish elevation nuts enough so you can smoothly and s-l-o-w-l-y move the dish elevation up and down in very small increments. Watch the signal strength and quality indicators as you move the dish elevation. Even if you are still off by a few degrees, you should still see some variations in signal level (they may be slight--a percent or two); peak for maximum signal. When you're at max signal, tighten the dish elevation nuts.

Now, loosen the nuts on the motor enough so you can smoothly and s-l-o-w-l-y move the entire motor and dish assembly from side to side in small steps. Again, watch your signal strength indicator and peak for max signal and, hopefully, quality indications.

There is interaction between all these settings and you may have to fine tune things several times to get everything solid, but barring a bad cable, faulty LNB, a sequoia in the way (or even a bent dish!), you should be able to home in on IA5, do a satellite scan and get some channels.

Try some of these tips, and stop back and let us know what your results are. We can refine things from there.

Good luck...and remember...patience (said by a man who was ready to throw the whole mess in the street).

Bob
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Old 09-18-2006, 11:30 PM
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Two quick questions.
What is a blind search,and also how do i know if i have a bent dish?
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:00 AM
satnutwillb satnutwillb is offline
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Blind search will scan in new transponders when you scan. To see if your dish is warped,you can tie 2 strings from top to bottom and side to side.The strings should barely touch.Or you can lay it on a flat surface and it should touch all the way around.Hope this helps. Maybe someone else has a few other ways to tell.
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Old 09-19-2006, 08:20 AM
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Bob you left out an episode of "dish dancing".
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8.5' Mesh Dish w/ C & Ku lnb's & 24" actuator
8.5' Mesh Dish w/ BSC621-2 fixed install for circular C Band on 40.5
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Old 09-19-2006, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgemcdlf
Bob you left out an episode of "dish dancing".
or was it more like the dish stomp.LOL
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Rainman's Equipment
Undien 4600,DSR 922
Fortec Ultra, Satworks 3618
2 Fortec Mercury II
Fortec Classic NA
8.5' Orbitron polar C Ku dish
8.5' Birdview HH C Ku dish
100cm Fortec dish
90cm Fortec dish
2 DG-240 HH motors
Co Rotor II feed horn
Norsat 8515 C band lnb
Norsat 4506A Ku lnb
BSC-621-2 Lnbf
Invacom QPH-031 Lnbf
Invacom SNH-031 Lnbf
Fortec Fsku-v universal Lnbf
V-Box

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Old 09-19-2006, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satnutwillb
Blind search will scan in new transponders when you scan. To see if your dish is warped,you can tie 2 strings from top to bottom and side to side.The strings should barely touch.Or you can lay it on a flat surface and it should touch all the way around.Hope this helps. Maybe someone else has a few other ways to tell.
I have read lots of people suggesting these two methods, and I can't say that they aren't good methods, but there is something that just doesn't seem right about both methods. If we were talking prime focus dish, then yes, both methods would be good, but we're talking offset dish here, and these dishes seem to come in all sorts of shapes, but are all in theory just sections of a prime focus dish, like as if you could take a pair of tin snips and cut an ellipse out of the top half of a prime focus dish, however this ellipse can be a variety of different shapes from tall and skinny to nearly circular to short and wide, and it just doesn't seem like some of these different shapes would work with this horizontal/vertical string technique, or the lay on flat surface technique, although I'm saying this just from intuition and nothing else, so I'm probably wrong.

However again intuitively, it would seem like the cross string method WOULD work if instead of using a vertical/horizontal string, you used two strings that were say oriented as an "X". Ie the one thing true about ALL dishes, whether prime focus or offset, is that they should have a vertical plane of symmetry, and a warped dish would show a warped "X" that had strings that didn't cross at the same place, and different length strings.

Anyway, I've used the cross string technique on my prime focus dishes, and I must admit using the lay on a flat surface technique (picnic table) myself when I got my 90cm, but it just didn't seem like these should be valid tests for an offset dish. Curious what other people think.
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:10 AM
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the string method seems to work fine with a prime focus dish have'nt tried itwith a offset dish yet.
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Rainman's Equipment
Undien 4600,DSR 922
Fortec Ultra, Satworks 3618
2 Fortec Mercury II
Fortec Classic NA
8.5' Orbitron polar C Ku dish
8.5' Birdview HH C Ku dish
100cm Fortec dish
90cm Fortec dish
2 DG-240 HH motors
Co Rotor II feed horn
Norsat 8515 C band lnb
Norsat 4506A Ku lnb
BSC-621-2 Lnbf
Invacom QPH-031 Lnbf
Invacom SNH-031 Lnbf
Fortec Fsku-v universal Lnbf
V-Box

I Like To Shop at Sadoun Satellite Sales.www.sadoun.com
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:40 AM
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When I was having such problems with my Winegard 76 cm dish, I entered into a nice ongoing e-mail correspondence with one of their engineers. His suggestion (as it pertains to the Winegard offset dish, but I'm sure it would apply to others) was to set the dish face down on a flat surface.

He advised that there should be no more than about 1/16" of space under any edge; since I had almost an inch of daylight on one side, I knew something was up! (By the way, Chief--the "dish dancing" and "dish stomping" mentioned above refer to my solution of actually standing on the back of the dish to "squish" it into some semblance of the proper shape. It worked well enough for me to get a lot of channels and to tell me to buy a new dish).

You can do a very rough determination of a dish's shape while it is mounted, by sighting along the edges to assess whether the dish looks like a saucer or one of those big Frito corn chips used for scooping dip.

The likelihood of a bent dish is pretty small provided it was properly packaged, shipped, stored and handled. My new dish from Sadoun was perfect when it arrived.

But, consider this: my warped dish picked up some channels--just not most (and none from IA5). BIG signals like KUIL (AMC4 @ 101W 11708 V) or the Gospel Broadcasting Network (AMC6 @ 72W 12144 V) made the trip through the warpage.

On another topic...the reason I like using a selected transponder vs. doing a blind scan is that you're dealing with a known quantity. My Viewsat receiver, for all its touted hardware search capabilities, will sometimes miss signals on a blind scan that it'll readily lock onto otherwise. Go figure.

Hang in, Chief!

Bob
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Old 09-19-2006, 07:14 PM