PBS Audio Revisited

radiobob · #1 (**permalink**) 09-01-2006, 10:57 PM

So... I went and spent money I shouldn't have today and bought an inexpensive surround sound receiver to replace my old Kenwood which (a) didn't have digital inputs, and (b) had a blown rear channel.

I hooked the Toslink (optical) line out of the sat receiver into the surround box and the whole setup sounds pretty darn amazing. Two problems though: I still don't get audio on any of the PBS channels (including "Create TV") no matter which digital flavor I choose. And, the remote control for the sat receiver no longer controls volume when the digital line is used (meaning yet another remote to fool with).

The second problem I can live with, but I'd like to solve the first one (if possible). Is anyone pulling the AC3 audio off of the PBS channels on AMC3?

Ultimately, it may be that my sat receiver simply doesn't pass the AC3 signal through to the digital port.

Thoughts?

Sadoun · #2 (**permalink**) 09-02-2006, 12:50 AM

From your signature, it seems that you are using a Viewsat receiver, correct? Since we don't sell this model, we are not sure if it does indeed pass AC3 audio.

The current Fortec receivers pass AC3 fine.

rainman · #3 (**permalink**) 09-02-2006, 08:31 AM

getting the ac3 sound from pbs just fine with the fortec ultra and koss surround system Bob. try turning on your surround sound after you lock on to pbs sometimes I have to do this to get the surround sound receiver to recognize the signal.

wejones · #4 (**permalink**) 09-02-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiobob

So... I went and spent money I shouldn't have today and bought an inexpensive surround sound receiver to replace my old Kenwood which (a) didn't have digital inputs, and (b) had a blown rear channel.

I hooked the Toslink (optical) line out of the sat receiver into the surround box and the whole setup sounds pretty darn amazing. Two problems though: I still don't get audio on any of the PBS channels (including "Create TV") no matter which digital flavor I choose. And, the remote control for the sat receiver no longer controls volume when the digital line is used (meaning yet another remote to fool with).

The second problem I can live with, but I'd like to solve the first one (if possible). Is anyone pulling the AC3 audio off of the PBS channels on AMC3?

Ultimately, it may be that my sat receiver simply doesn't pass the AC3 signal through to the digital port.

Thoughts?

Does your receiver have an "info" button or some window where you can see the video and audio PIDs? On my Fortec Lifetime, when I originally bought it, it didn't pass AC3. When I would scan in the PBS channels, I'd get a video PID listed, but zero would be listed for the audio PID. After I upgraded the firmware, the PBS channels would scan in, and I'd get the audio PID, and it would work OK.

One problem I still have (at least I don't think I ever figured this out), is that AC3 channels HAVE to be scanned in. Ie you can't enter an AC3 channel manually through the receiver. I think I remember figuring out that you could use the computer channel editor and select AC3 after the fact, but I'm not positive that that actually worked, although it should.

But anyway, check to see if you have zero listed for the audio PID. If you do, it indicates that the channels did not scan in as AC3, which probably indicates that the firmware version you have doesn't support AC3. The fact that you have a digital output means that later firmware might enable that support. However it is also possible that the channels just didn't scan in properly, which has happened a couple times for me. You might try deleting the PBS channels, and scan them in again.

Re the volume problem, that is something that happened to me too, with my Ultra. At one time, I noticed that I couldn't control volume, and I couldn't remember if I had been able to do it before or not, then later I was able to control volume for a while, but it stopped working again. I think I found that I was able to control volume on non-AC3 channels, and if I went to say Montanna, changed the volume, and went back to regular PBS. Not sure if I ever figured that one out either. I seem to remember it locking up my receiver a couple times after experimenting too much, so I quit experimenting.

Iceberg · #5 (**permalink**) 09-02-2006, 11:26 AM

I have a couple receivers that have a toslink output but the reciever doesn't output AC-3

Its just stereo

You hear a "chirp" now and then

My Fortec Classic and Coolsat 5000 output it with no issues.
On the Coolsat when I hit info there is an icon to tell you its AC-3. The Pansat 1500 says [AC3] by the audio PID (The 1500 doesn't have a output for it)

The Coolsat shows a weird audio PID like "65534" or something..but it works

The ones that don't output it show 0 for apid

Reinhold · #6 (**permalink**) 09-03-2006, 07:45 AM

I use my Bose 3 2 1 system.It comes in great.I find I have to keep the volume on my lifetime ultra turned all the way down,or it trips out my receiver,and control the volume with the bose.I have to keep adjusting the volume,because the AC3 comes in stronger then the rest.
Reinhold

radiobob · #7 (**permalink**) 09-03-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadoun

From your signature, it seems that you are using a Viewsat receiver, correct? Since we don't sell this model, we are not sure if it does indeed pass AC3 audio.

The current Fortec receivers pass AC3 fine.

Well, at least the dish and LNB came from Sadoun!

Thanks to all with their thoughts, observations, and suggestions. The Viewsat does allow you to set up the audio PIDs, but defaults to some odd number (something like 8197...I'm not at home right now so I can't give the exact figure); no matter, 'cuz I've hand entered the PIDs for the PBS channels.

The Viewsat also has a Dolby logo on each channel's "info" screen, but I've never seen it highlighted--not on the PBS feeds or on the Pentagon's Dolby channel--so you'd think it could pass AC3.

I'll keep plugging away on this one. Again, thanks!

Bob

wejones · #8 (**permalink**) 09-03-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiobob

Well, at least the dish and LNB came from Sadoun!

Thanks to all with their thoughts, observations, and suggestions. The Viewsat does allow you to set up the audio PIDs, but defaults to some odd number (something like 8197...I'm not at home right now so I can't give the exact figure); no matter, 'cuz I've hand entered the PIDs for the PBS channels.

Repeating what I tried to say above, you do NOT want to try to "hand enter" the PIDs for an AC3 channel, because at least on MY receivers, there is no way to tell the receiver that it is an AC3 channel. The 8197 number (I forget the number off hand), is pretty much the same as entering zero for a PID. Ie it is not a valid PID#, so the receiver ignores the value.

Back to hand entering.... I use TSREADER with my Twinhan card a lot. With TSREADER, you can enter a manual channel, which is similar to hand entering the PIDs with a regular receiver. However with TSREADER, when you come to entering the audio PID, you have to give it a "type". For these satellite transport streams, there seem to be 3 types, a type 3, a type 4, and a type 81 or something. Types 3 and 4 are regular mpeg audio, and the 81 is the AC3. On MY receivers, if I hand enter the PBS PID#s, I will NOT be able to hear audio, because the receiver assumes that there will be mpeg audio, not AC3.

It is my GUESS that when you "scan" in a channel, ie let the receiver decide, that it figures out which type audio is there, and puts that in the channel info, however if you are hand entering PIDs, that you don't have any way of telling the receiver that this is an AC3 channel, unless you can go back in via a channel editor and select that parameter.

That's why I suggested deleting these channels and re-scanning them. It's possible that the first time you entered these channels, that they got entered as mpeg audio, ie either a bad scan, or perhaps your first entering of these channels was by hand entering??? It is also possible that (and this might be related to the difference between a network scan and a transponder scan), that if you re-scan while you still have those channels saved, that it won't update the mpeg setting to AC3. However, if you delete the channels first, then re-scan, you might be able to update the channel info.

However it is also possible that the software version you are using just doesn't do AC3, despite the little icons you said you saw. The way I understand it, there are all sorts of dolby digital and surround sound, etc, and they don't always infer AC3 capability. Although it does sound like your receiver SHOULD be capable. Have there been any firmware upgrades released for your receiver? Perhaps new firmware handles AC3 better?

radiobob · #9 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 01:12 PM

Tried deleting channels and re-scanning--even got a new PBS mux on 12180--still "no joy". I noticed that on a fresh scan, the receiver does, indeed, not know what to do with the audio and inserts the default '8192' PID. Tried a manual audio PID load, which "took", but still nada for sound. There is no provision for selecting audio "flavors" in software and, no, there's been no firmware updates since March.

Might just be that I'm "SOL" for now!

Again, thanks!
Bob

rainman · #10 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 09:31 PM

unfortunately thats what it sounds like Bob.

dumb&dumber · #11 (**permalink**) 09-16-2006, 10:22 PM

Having same problem on most channels on AMC3, no audio, Create is one of the channels with no audio. I got the sound on my Pansat 3500S, but then changed to Neusat SP-6000 receiver. I have digital output runnung through Boise lifestyle. The audio PID shows zero, is anyone else having this problem with a Neusat, is it the firmware, is it available yet. Cant find a way to enter manually. When I press the arrows that should change it there is no response. I am reluctant to download firmware in case I lose my settings. Thanks for any help.