STAB HH 100. Adjustment issue

[antare]

Hi
I have installed a STAB 100 HH with a fortec start dish FC90U.

The issue I have is that :

In most eastern satellite (hispasat 1C/1D), When I push up the dish, I get a better signal and
In most western satellite (Galaxy 10R), pushing up or down does not get me any improvement in signal (55%)

center satellites (like Intelsat Americas 5/ Nimiq2, AMC 5 work fine)

This case in not covered in STAB HH100 manual, do you know how the adjustments should be done ? (motor elevation or dish elevation?)

What is the rule of thumb in adjustement (motor elevation vs dish elevation)

my location is Toronto, Canada

Latitude: 45.75 N
Longitude: 79.2 W

[Carpenter1]

Your post need to be ajusted. Not the antenna or motor.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by antare

Hi
I have installed a STAB 100 HH with a fortec start dish FC90U.

The issue I have is that :

In most eastern satellite (hispasat 1C/1D), When I push up the dish, I get a better signal and
In most western satellite (Galaxy 10R), pushing up or down does not get me any improvement in signal (55%)

center satellites (like Intelsat Americas 5/ Nimiq2, AMC 5 work fine)

This case in not covered in STAB HH100 manual, do you know how the adjustments should be done ? (motor elevation or dish elevation?)

What is the rule of thumb in adjustement (motor elevation vs dish elevation)

my location is Toronto, Canada

Latitude: 45.75 N
Longitude: 79.2 W

I assume you are using usuals for most end of the arc satellites use disqec 1.2. to fine tune sat.

[pmb1010]

If its just a couple at the end, as an alternative to using 1.2, but try to add or subtract the value of the satellite's position to see if you can dial it in.

Example, Sat is at 61.5, put in 61.4 or 61.6 as it's position, maybe it will come in OK for you.

I've had unreliable results using a mix of 1.2 and USALS (1.3) in settings adjustments. This is on an Ultra. Your milage may vary.

[antare]

I am using 1.2 not USALs. the stacruiser does not have position updates and cannot edit the sat position. the post is plum. i think the problem is the sclae of the fortec star dish. it is off by 5 deg. i will trying to adjust the dish elevation and see

[wejones]

Originally Posted by antare

I am using 1.2 not USALs. the stacruiser does not have position updates and cannot edit the sat position. the post is plum. i think the problem is the sclae of the fortec star dish. it is off by 5 deg. i will trying to adjust the dish elevation and see

It seems strange that you can't create a new sat with a user defined position, what do you do when a new sat appears? Do you have to wait for them to come out with new firmware or something? That just doesn't seem right. It seems like there must be some way. But I have no experience with your hardware.

But first, determine whether the you have a good arc and can tune in the sat with the motor, or if you're really out of alignment. If you ARE out of alignment, first of all, the 5 degree off thing shouldn't be an issue, assuming that you first set the motor elevation and never touched it again, because the scale on the motor should be accurate enough, and the dish elevation adjustment is obtained by peaking on a sat. Using the scale only needs to be a starting point. If, however, you attempted to peak with the motor elevation after the initial setup with the scales, then you could be off.

If that is the case, my tendency would be to go back and start over and do it right, however if you want to try the push up/pull down thing {now is the time for Steve... where is he... :-) }, it would seem like the first step would be to get the easterly and westerly sats to be the same, by getting the mount aiming south, by rotating the whole mount on the pole by a very small amount. There is a web page that has fairly good instructions on this, ie http://www.satsig.net/polmount.htm . As I said, I really don't think it should ever come to using this, because if you get to the point where you can see a difference in these tests, then you have done something wrong, and you may be better off just starting over, but in this case, perhaps you are close enough that a minor tweak might bring you into alignment quickly.

[antare]

Well,
Satcruiser dsr 101+ has about 40 statellites position out of which 10 are user programmable. i can recycle some of the european sats they have programmed there through the DISceq 1.2. so room is not an issue for the # of sat i receive in my location. bu i do not know know how to change the degrees atatched to the sat

My installation is plum. i have good reception but the most easterly/westerly
sats drop to a 50% signal . so the arc is propably off by 1 or 2 degrees that really gets accentuated on easterly/westerly positions. . I magetting on the roof now to adjust the elevation and peak the signal on AMC3 and then i will see what happen to hispasat1 and galaxy10r signals

[rainman]

Originally Posted by antare

Well,
Satcruiser dsr 101+ has about 40 statellites position out of which 10 are user programmable. i can recycle some of the european sats they have programmed there through the DISceq 1.2. so room is not an issue for the # of sat i receive in my location. bu i do not know know how to change the degrees atatched to the sat

My installation is plum. i have good reception but the most easterly/westerly
sats drop to a 50% signal . so the arc is propably off by 1 or 2 degrees that really gets accentuated on easterly/westerly positions. . I magetting on the roof now to adjust the elevation and peak the signal on AMC3 and then i will see what happen to hispasat1 and galaxy10r signals

I would'nt change the elevation by to much if you are receiving most of the arc.

[antare]

Well,
I have done my research thanks to wejones help. I found that my installation was about 5 deg off my true south.

AMC3 is my true south satellite at 191 deg True and the stab 100 was pointing at it 5deg west of true south. So I moved the motor in order to get AMC3 to be in the 0 position but by doing so but i lost Hispasat 1C1D and the quality on galaxy 10R was very poor. So i made a trade off and put it back to 5 deg off so I can get Hispasat and better signal on galaxy. this my findings fro toronto if you want to get hispasat

[elgemcdlf]

Ok odds are if you are accurate with your 5 degree error I would set it correct. You lost your ends due to declination which I believe is set a hair to low making the arc wide and flat. So if you set your true south correctly you should be able to raise declination a degree and lower elevation a degree and center should be the same in quality. Now try the ends. Better or worse? Adjust accordingly.

[antare]

elgemcdlf,

- My Declination is 17deg (theory is 23.3) because the FC90U does not have a very good scale (dish)
- Elevation is 43.75 (motor)

You mean I should go :

Declination 18
Elevation : 42.75

I thought it was a NO NO to touch the Elevation ?

[elgemcdlf]

The scale for elevation is the same as the scale for declination. An approximation. You are attempting to match the arc in the sky (declination) and place it in the correct spot in the sky (true south and elevation). You did read my post correctly but I think I had it reversed. Lower your declination to 16 and raise your motor to 44.75. Assuming you have peak signal at your current elevation and declination settings for true south.

The basic flow is: point the dish at true south and let USALS drive to the nearest sat with an active transponder. Peak the dish using only declination. Try the arc. When you reach your eastern most sat that you can get signal from try the up down thing. Same for the west. If they are opposite rotate on yoru mast towards the up side (up made for higher signal. Continue until you have only lower signal whether up or down on both ends. You are now centered on the arc.

Now returning to center peak again for signal using declination. Try your ends of the arc. Adjust accordingly. If you are falling short lower declination and raise elevation by the same amount. If you are to wide just reverse the above.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by antare

elgemcdlf,

- My Declination is 17deg (theory is 23.3) because the FC90U does not have a very good scale (dish)
- Elevation is 43.75 (motor)

You mean I should go :

Declination 18
Elevation : 42.75

I thought it was a NO NO to touch the Elevation ?

I think the thing is, that if you did it right, it is a "NO NO" to touch it, you only mess with it if it's apparent that it isn't set right.
I know I'm like a broken record on this, but again, when I see a motor "ELEVATION" in the 40s, I ALWAYS suspect that elevation and latitude are being interchanged.
Ie if by chance your motor has a "Latitude" scale instead of an "Elevation" scale, then the 43.75, you entered was really 46.25, which would result in you needing about 2.5 degrees less on your dish elevation. Also, the FC90 dish you have, has an offset angle that is 1.87 degrees more than the other Fortec dishes. That means, that if, as I suspect, the "U" type bracket you got with it is generic for the other fortec dishes, then your dish would be aiming an additional 1.87 deg high, meaning that you'd need another 1.87 degrees more declination (lower dish elevation), ie a total of 4.37. Ie, we're getting pretty close to that 5 degrees that you said the dish elevation is off.
Anyway, what I would do, was make sure that you entered your "Elevation" on an elevation scale. If you did, then, OK, your scales must be way off for some reason, and you might be best off experimenting as Steve said, but if you entered your Elevation on a Latitude scale, I'd recommend starting over and entering the right elevation.
{ Broken record mode off. :-) } { Wonder if anyone in the current generation knows what broken record means??? }


EDIT: Oh, and one other thing, the 23.3 or 17, is not really the "declination" the declination is 6 degrees. The 23.3 (or I would have suggested 24) is the dish elevation, which is 30-declination, where 30 is the bend angle on the motor shaft, assuming the bend is at the published angle. Ie since the dish can't aime down 6 degrees, they bend the motor shaft 30 deg, so that the dish then raises 24 degrees to get the 6 degrees down. I get dizzy with all these angles.

EDIT #2: THE ABOVE calculations were ALL WRONG. SORRY. I was assuming 43.75 was elevation but actually it was Latitude, so nearly everything I said was wrong. SORRY.

[antare]

I am still confused which way after reading the 2 last posts.

The scale on the STAB motor is a Latitude scale. i am sure of that. here is
the manual page capture003.jpg. My latitude is 43.75 measured by GPS. I do not understand where the 46.25 is coming from.

You are right about the 4.73 deg down which is the 23.3 - 4.73 = 18.5 (23.3 from the 100HH calculator). but what I meant by 5 deg is off the true south (horizontally). my true south is 5 deg west of the zero postion of my motor

How do i find the right elevation given I have a latitude scale. I thought the motor scale is WYSWIG.

I think I am going to follow wejones suggestions as they make more sense geometrically to me. I have nothing to lose , it is just fun.

By the way my satcruiser has no USALS. i do everything manual

[wejones]

Originally Posted by antare

I am still confused which way after reading the 2 last posts.

The scale on the STAB motor is a Latitude scale. i am sure of that. here is
the manual page Attachment 84. My latitude is 43.75 measured by GPS. I do not understand where the 46.25 is coming from.

And rightly so. I was all mixed up. Please ignore 90% of what I said. (And I won't say which 90% :-) ) Sorry, even though your posts were saying 43.75 was your latitude, I was confused by your saying the 43.75 was an "elevation" .
Elevation is approximately 90 minus your latitude, so the 46.25 would be your approximate elevation. But if you have a latitude scale, then you did right by putting the scale on 43.75 (although I would have recommended 44.4) Anyway, ignore what I said about elevation above.

Originally Posted by antare

..... but what I meant by 5 deg is off the true south (horizontally). my true south is 5 deg west of the zero postion of my motor

Sorry again. So you mean that in addition to the dish scale being off by 5 degrees, that all the satellites are off by 5 degrees, or are you saying that you had to aim the motor 5 degrees off true south???? That shouldn't be.
When your motor is on it's zero position, it MUST be aiming true south. Ie, in your picture, that flat surface that says "REF---->" should aim SOUTH.
It really isn't a function of where the dish is aiming so much as where the mount is aiming. It is the rotation axis of the motor that you're trying to aim south.

Originally Posted by antare

How do i find the right elevation given I have a latitude scale. I thought the motor scale is WYSWIG.

It is, as long as you were using the right scale, and apparently you were, although I'm confused at how you could possibly be 5 degrees off on your true south. I assume you are determining your true south by a compass, and they can be off that much, particularly if you do it close to your dish. Even without any metal around, I've seen compass headings that far off just by moving about 10' in the woods, half a mile from any metal.
However, I'm still not sure that you're saying that you rotated 5 degrees by turning the whole mount on the pole, or if you are saying that you ran the motor for 5 degrees, or what. Are you sure that your dish is aligned with the marks on the motor shaft? This is all very confusing.

Originally Posted by antare

I think I am going to follow wejones suggestions as they make more sense geometrically to me.

Well we just saw the problem with listening to me before I had my afternoon nap. I was all mixed up. Sorry. I'm even more confused now that I see what you're saying.