Using BSC621-2 C/Ku LNBF

[Reinhold]

Update:
Yesterday I received the cone scalar ring and installed it.I put the ring as far to the end as possible.I installed the lnb as far back towaerds the dish as possible.It is installed with the switch in the downward position not like in vj's picture and I used the small triangle on the end to get "0" scew.I got Ku and some C-band.Someone said you don't need to use the switch;not true.Since two different types of LNB's are used,the receiver does not switch between C-band and Ku-band on the same satellite.You have to do it manually each time.On all C sats this is not so or all Ku-sats.
You can receive Ku without the scalar ring,but not C.
Is it worth it? I don't know.I did not do any fine tuning and I did not get much on C-band.I'll save the fine tuning for the fall when my feet don't stick to the roof.
Reinhold.

[pmb1010]

Reinhold,

I think someone said you didnt need to use the internal switch of the LNB itself.

You could hook up your external switch to the:
- end of the long LNB for Ku band,
- side of the switch (that doesnt say "receiver") for C.
- spare 18" Dishnetwork type dish.

WIth say a 4 port switch:

Use the receiver Diseqc to go to port 1 for C band, port 2 for Ku, 3 for DishLNB on 18"

I also swiped this text from another site, might be helpful especially the lineup using C band, and how the Ku needs to be offset a little bit...

-------------------
The tech that installed my 8' C/Ku dish showed me the solution to your Ku signal problem.
The C band LNB in the unit is center-mounted and is therefore peaked with a great signal.
The Ku LNB of the other hand is offset from the center and needs to be separately peaked.
To do this, first align the dish with true south. Then rotate the unit so the Ku LNB is on either the East or West side of center.
Then move the dish a few points in the same direction while watching your signal levels until the Ku LNB peaks. Save this position like it's another satellite (i.e. W4-AMC4 C band, K4-AMC4 Ku Band).
Hope this helps!

Follow the picture on the box and connect the short cable as shown. The receiver port is what you connect your rg6 cable then run it to your receiver. Then in your menu, all of your c-band sats. will be diseqc #1 and the ku side has to be set at diseqc #2. No in-line diseqc switch is needed, however if you have another dish (aimed at something else) and are using an external diseqc switch then you need to connect the extra dish in port #3 of the switch and in your receiver menu you select #3 for the extra dish. If you are doing this, you can run the rg6 from the output on the lnb into port #1, but leave port #2 empty on the external diseqc switch.

[Reinhold]

The KU band comes in fine even without the scalar ring.I don't get alot of C band but I don't know how much I should be getting.I tried not using the built in switch,I got no signal.I have not tried using an external switch.My experiance with 4 way switches has not been too good.They keep cutting in and out.I had the same experiance with the built in switch on the KU band.Before that I used 4 different switches on theQPH031 LNBF.They all seemed to have temporary interuptions on the liniar side.
Reinhold.

[pmb1010]

Instructions for the BSC621:

http://www.dmsiusa.com/documents/621manual.pdf

[Reinhold]

I have read the instructions somewhere else.
Iwas not using the dialectric plate and was getting all my Ku sats.
The problem comes in;when you download C band and Ku band from the same satellite,because you have a universal on the Ku side and a standard on the C band side the receiver will not switch automatically.If you switch from ku to c you have to go back to the setup menu and change the settings.There is no problem if the whole sat is either C or Ku.
Reinhold.

[rainman]

the receiver should have a list for the ku and c band seperate my ultra does for instance G3R ku G3C c band.

[vj9999]

I have deleted all sats in my receiver and created 2 new ones. One is called C-Band and the other one is called Ku-Band. I just go and change the location in usals to where I want to move and scan the sat.

I clean up my transponders every once in a while if they get too cluttered

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by vj9999

I have deleted all sats in my receiver and created 2 new ones. One is called C-Band and the other one is called Ku-Band. I just go and change the location in usals to where I want to move and scan the sat.

I clean up my transponders every once in a while if they get too cluttered

That is how I ended up setting up my Coship receiver. It is DiSeqC 1.0 so it can not drive a dish but the setup was a mess to me so I just set one C band sat and one Ku and scanned everything into those two. Tied it to the big dish and used the 922 to drive it.

[pmb1010]

Some success... putting together a temporary setup.

Put the 120cm dish on a tripod and pointed thru a gap in the trees.
Got the BSC621 dialed into AMC5 on Ku, to make sure I could find it and the LNB worked.

Then I moved over to G11.
Got dialed into 12060 "Law Enforcement Network" (no pic, but good signal), just to confirm I'm on the desired sat.

Then I reconfigured G11 for 5150 C lnb, and did a pre-programmed scan on whats in the Ultra for G11. Got EWTN, with a pretty good signal, a few varients of EWTN. About 6 or 7 stations. I'm on a 3" tv, it looks like its about 80% signal.

Running a power scan now.

[rainman]

congrat pmb1010 you will get her going yet.

[pmb1010]

OK whats the trick to receive WB on G11?
WBDVB26700-3/4


I put in 3720H, and 26700 and it shows some reception of signal.
But no matter if I put in FTA, or ALL, it comes up with "no channels found".

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

OK whats the trick to receive WB on G11?
WBDVB26700-3/4


I put in 3720H, and 26700 and it shows some reception of signal.
But no matter if I put in FTA, or ALL, it comes up with "no channels found".

Ah the secret of the WB. For $50.00 I will tell you how to get all the WB channels there. Ok you can owe me You have to manually enter the PID info. No idea why but if you manually enter all the pid info you will get them. I think there are 3 channels there if I remember right. One is a feed. Maybe more.

[pmb1010]

OK so manual PID info.
Not sure how thats done on an Ultra.
Surprized blind scan didn't find it and figure that out...

Anybody know - how does one put in PID info in an Ultra?

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

OK so manual PID info.
Not sure how thats done on an Ultra.
Surprized blind scan didn't find it and figure that out...

Anybody know - how does one put in PID info in an Ultra?

I have a Platinum but in it there is a manual scan screen and within that area you can enter the info. I have 3 different makes of receivers and all are the same concerning that tp. I have seen other posts with the same response so I believe it is something in the tp itself.

[elgemcdlf]

Find it yet? I want to know you have C Band WB Then you too can charge $50.00 to tell others how it is done.

[pmb1010]

I found it under Advanced Scan.

I cant read the menus on this 3" tv. Lasik ruined eyes....

OK, put in the info from lyngsat, and for PID (I guess) it's 101, 102.

Still, "0 programs found".

-=======
edit.. GOT IT.
Putzing with the values, it popped in. Frustrating, but fun.

C band is neat.

--------------

edit 2 - blah... wrong audio for the picture shown... LOL !!!!
Gotta hit the sack, up early tomorrow. Will report further results tomorrow afternoon on this project.

PMB

[elgemcdlf]

It then asked you if you want to add the channel anyway. You said yes and then checked to see if it was there Oh yes and renamed it after you confirmed it was there.

Yes entering 101 for VPID and 102 for APID should have gotten you WB East. Now do it all over again with 201 and 202 and then with 301 and 302. You should now have 3 WB channels. Of course you have renamed them because they were saved as something cool like Channel 1

[elgemcdlf]

There are a couple good channels on G10R also. They scan right in though. WB is the only one that makes you go through all this Good to know you have it figured out. Have a great night.

[pmb1010]

Carlisle, IN?

We have a plant in New Carlisle, IN.
Fly into South Bend a bunch of times a year.
Going Aug 15/16/17 as a matter of fact.

I think you are more in central IN, right?

[rainman]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

OK so manual PID info.
Not sure how thats done on an Ultra.
Surprized blind scan didn't find it and figure that out...

Anybody know - how does one put in PID info in an Ultra?

use the advance scan mode.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

Carlisle, IN?

We have a plant in New Carlisle, IN.
Fly into South Bend a bunch of times a year.
Going Aug 15/16/17 as a matter of fact.

I think you are more in central IN, right?

I grew up in the South Bend area. What company do you work for? New Carlisle is near South Bend in the north central portion of the state. Right near the MI border. Carlisle is in the SW portion of the state. About a 5 hour drive from South Bend. Maybe a bit more. I am halfway between Terre Haute and Vincinnes near the IL line.

I actually live in a tiny place called Pleasantville. Population 125 We do not have a post office so all the mail goes through the Carlisle post office. Hence Carlisle.

[rainman]

hey Steve that was'nt your town in the movie by the same name was it.

[elgemcdlf]

I rented that movie when I bought my current house. It was so boring I never finished watching it. We had a major crime wave last year. 2 of my neighbors horses were in my yard. Wife left the gate open. No need to involve the police we managed to get it all under control. Don't have a police department anyway

[rainman]

you just got to love small towns.our local constable arround here sort of reminds you of barney fyfe.LOL

[pmb1010]

Hey Reinhold,

Point your new C/Ku four footer at G3C-Cband, and tell me if you can get 4040H.
VJ9999 if you are reading, what do you get from both of these(4040 and 3745)?

I can get 3745V with tons of signal (50%), but nothing on 4040h.

Seems as though all the "church channels" on C band come thru loud and clear on 4' dish... not much luck with the "good stuff"

[vj9999]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

Hey Reinhold,

Point your new C/Ku four footer at G3C-Cband, and tell me if you can get 4040H.
VJ9999 if you are reading, what do you get from both of these(4040 and 3745)?

I can get 3745V with tons of signal (50%), but nothing on 4040h.

Seems as though all the "church channels" on C band come thru loud and clear on 4' dish... not much luck with the "good stuff"

I don't get anything on 4040H either. I'm not surprised though. With 7/8 FEC it really leaves a little room for error.

You can see on a spectrum analyzer that the signal is there. Here is a snapshot of horizontal on G3C.

[pmb1010]

With 7/8 FEC it really leaves a little room for error

Can you elaborate on what that means?
I realise it has something to do with error correction but not sure what.

[vj9999]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

With 7/8 FEC it really leaves a little room for error

Can you elaborate on what that means?
I realise it has something to do with error correction but not sure what.

I think Rod explains it the best at http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/index.html#srfec

Basically 7/8 FEC means that 7/8 of the symbol rate are the actual signal and the rest is used for error correction. So if there is any corrupt data there is not enough there to recover the data. These signals will need a very well aligned dish and a good size dish to recive a lock on the signal. Otherwise you will get no signal or alot breakups.

If FEC is 2/3 or 1/2 than it is alot easier to recover from missing data and the picture will not be breaking up and you can get a better lock on the signal.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by vj9999

If FEC is 2/3 or 1/2 than it is alot easier to recover from missing data and the picture will not be breaking up and you can get a better lock on the signal.

If I might add with 2/3 or 1/2 you will also suffer inpicture quality. Basic concept is less error correction better picture providing you can capture enough signal and you are capturing correctly. Dish alignment and size are the keys.n You will probably never get a 7/8 FEC on a 4' C Band dish

[wejones]

I don't know much about how this forward error correction works, but I think it comes down to signal to noise ratio. I think that we all get a bunch of errors in our reception, it's just that we don't know it.

I just tuned in the above mentioned 4040 transponder with TSREADER. Even when I wasn't peaked on the sat (my motor tends to miss pulses, and doesn't always come back to the same point), TSREADER was saying that I had zero errors of any kind, and I was getting what seemed to be fine reception. However I also tuned this signal in at the same time with my Broadlogic card, and although I seldom use this card to watch video, it does have a nice feature that the control program counts both corrected errors and uncorrected errors, and also gives you signal to noise ratios and error rates.

It was kind of interesting watching the corrected and uncorrected errors on this signal before I was peaked and after. Before I was peaked, even though TSREADER was showing no errors, the Broadlogic card was showing about 10,000 errors per second (at least that's what I think I was seeing), and the FEC was correcting perhaps half, ie I was still racking up a LOT of uncorrected errors, which didn't show up in TSREADER.

After I nudged the motor to peak the sat, I still got a lot of corrected errors, but got zero uncorrected errors. Also, my signal to noise ratio about doubled after I peaked the signal.

I think that as VJ said, at 7/8, if you have a lot of errors, which you will have, if you have a low S/N ratio, the FEC just can't keep up with the errors.

This is an interesting topic. I see a lot of posts from people who are having problems, and they refuse to blame the problems on reception errors, often because all they have to measure is the errors is something like TSREADER, but if they had used something like this Broadlogic display that shows more detail about the signal, I think they would be surprised.

I am a complete novice with respect to understanding all these BER, and Viterbe error rates, and the different kinds of errors involved, however I find it very interesting, and I'm really interested in understanding why TSREADER doesn't show any errors when the Broadlogic card shows thousands per second.