Bad Luck, No Luck, & Frustrated! Advice, Please?

[vj9999]

This is what I would do.

Start from scratch. Set the motor latitude scale (I know sg2100 has it on one side) to your latitude and don't mess with it ever again. Loosely set the dish elevation to what it should be.

Using buttons on your motor, move it approximately one degree west.

Point your whole setup as closely as you can to your true south (not sat, but actual true south).

On your receiver go to Galaxy 11 and pick an active transponder (not sure which one is active, but somebody has suggested one ore two above already - don't rely on online sites because they are not always 100% up to date).

Slowely change the elevation of your dish (I mean in millimeters until you get some signal). Make sure to wait couple of seconds to allow the dish to lock in on any signal.

If you dont get anything (or vey low signal). Move the whole setup (motor) physically around the pole in the direction that you think the sat should be - don't use any motorized functions. Againmove it in very small increments. Once you move it couple of millimeters, again try adjusting dish elevation until you get the signal. You might have to repeat the process few times (and maybe even change directions).

Once you have G11 locked in than you should move to other sats. Until you get G11 you should not even think of any other sats.

It is possible once you peak it on G11 that you should be dead on the arc, but your next step should be to check the sats to your extreme east and extreme west (don't worry about the sats near G11).

That might be harder to do with 1.2, but doable.

It takes alot of patience. Some succeed right away, but to most it will take couple of days, maybe even weeks to get hang of it.

On my first try I was banging my head for 3-4 days, desperate and clueless. Now I can take my whole setup down and get it up and running again in minutes.

[rainman]

I agree with vj it takes alot of paitence. just keep at it and you will get it.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by radiobob

I measured the distance between the front of the LNB and the dish and came up with something closer to 18.5-19" rather than the specified 17.5". By sliding the mounting bracket as far toward the dish as possible then sliding the LNB as far forward as possible, it still doesn't make 17.5" (closer to 18"), but signal strength and quality levels drop (although not significantly).

As for manhandling the feed support arm, I guess I could try to bend it, but I don't know how successful I'll be; will definitely have to disassemble the dish to attempt that! Funny thing is, I hadn't really considered the dish itself as a potential culprit since everything was pre-measured, machined, etc. ......
.....

I sure wouldn't start bending your support arm at this point. Since you are receiving one satellite, you clearly have an alignment problem. Before you mess things up worse, I'd work on the alignment problem first, and once you figure that out, you might play with the focal length, but you also might decide that it isn't necessary. Also, the measurement to the near edge of the dish is usually just an approximation of the FL, and it may not be the case with all offset dishes. Ie usually the center of the parabola is near the near edge of the dish, but it doesn't have to be.
Anyway, I'd recommend continuing to work on the alignment before bending anything. But again.... when the motor is centered, and aimed at your south satellite, the FL measurement you were doing from dish edge to lnbf should roughly aim at the satellite, and the south satellite has an elevation of about 55 deg, so measuring that angle should tell you if you are at least close to being aimed right.

[elgemcdlf]

One item I forgot to post. If you have an increase in signal when pushing up or pulling down on both ends of your signalling arc It is elevation (motor) so if you get a signal increase when pushing up on the east end and on the west end your elevation is to low. Increase your motor elevation 1 degree and decrease your declination (dish elevation) 1 degree. This will widen your arc while maintaining your center point while also raising the arc you are creating.

Now we start the process again and see how far to the east and west we can get. Should be a bit further in the arc. We repeat the 1 degree alteration again and check again. I know this sounds like a bunch of work but this method will work and being your first time out you will have TV with an incomplete arc. After a few of these moves you will know how many degrees to go to add x sats to your arc.

So if the 1 degree method adds one sat on each end of your arc and you are still short 4 sats on each end of your arc try 4 degrees next time.

The same holds true for pulling down just reverse the settings. Decrease motor elevation and increase declination. This will only help you when you first have your true south sat set properly.

Forget about focal length. If you have not altered your dish or arm it should be correct. You want to seat the lnbf as far away from the dish as it can go in it's mount. After you get an arc with signal you can play with focal length for very fine tuning.

[radiobob]

Boy, you guys are great!

SOLID, solid advice.

Here are some things to consider, though...

The one sat I get never gets stronger than ~ 30% signal and 55% quality. This is true whether I rely on the motor or my previous fixed installation. This is true whether I gently coax elevation and azimuth micrometer by micrometer (I haven't been able to move things at the Angstrom level yet), or take broader strokes. The bottom line is, I never seem to be able to suck in enough usable RF (or decode enough bits) to pick up Galaxy 11 or IA8 to establish my "true south" bird.

Despite my apparent frustration, I have no lack of "stick-to-it-avness"; while others may have had to bang their heads for 3 or 4 days, I've been at this project for at least a couple of hours a day for almost a month. Since I work for myself, almost every hour I've spent messing with my new obsession has been an unbillable hour!

That said, I won't have a client-free day for a few days, so all I can do is wallow in an obsessive-compulsive stew!

But, boy, do I appreciate all your suggestions! I can blah-blah about my years of experience, the Extra class ham ticket and the FCC General commercial license, etc., but I'm the first to admit (a) when I just don't know what the @#$% I'm doing and, (b), that I have a well-developed capacity for overlooking the obvious!

Back later...

Bob

[elgemcdlf]

Ok all you electronics gurus out there is his tower creating noise interference? Not so much the tower but any broadcast equipment on or near it? Also your numbers mean very little as every receiver displays differently. My Fortec locks at 20% and my BEC will not at anything under 50%. Just in how the receiver displays the feed not any type of reality as to strength or quality. Just reference. Do you have clear TV with these readings?

You are using RG6 cable correct?

[rainman]

if you have a circular lnb you could shoot for nimiq 1 also at 91 degrees alot stronger signal.

[boroda1]

Originally Posted by rainman

if you have a circular lnb you could shoot for nimiq 1 also at 91 degrees alot stronger signal.

I have a killer signal from Nimiq with my Universal Linear LNB as well. Radio 880AM and 105FM and silent TV channels, showing Bell reciver.
With 0.3 dB NF LNBf, it maybe even stronger.
My "newbie" suggestion to radiobob is the primitive one: I would suggest to wait for Viewsat to come. I tried to align my dish with Twinhan Starbox, and just waisted a time, but when I got coolsat, I got a signal right away (it was from wrong sat, but good enough for start). Maybe, the old Traxis receiver is not sensitive?
Radiobob, are you transmitting on SW? Can I here you here in California?
I can hear some folks on 31M SW. I have just a portable SONY that can tune sidebands.

[radiobob]

Originally Posted by boroda1

Radiobob, are you transmitting on SW? Can I here you here in California? I can hear some folks on 31M SW. I have just a portable SONY that can tune sidebands.

Nah...not at the moment. None of my ham radio antennas are functioning right now (thanks alot, Katrina!). I need to take everything down, rebuild, recable, and put up some new antennas that have been sitting in boxes for...well...a long time!

Yes, pre-hurricane, you could've heard me in CA, if tuned to the right mode on the right band. Heck, on 15M (21 MHz) I've even heard my own signal circumnavigate the globe, complete with appropriate time delay for the 25,000 mile trip!

Was out of town all day, so wasn't here at the radio ranch when the postal carrier came by and tried to drop off my new box. Maybe by this time tomorrow I'll do the definitive test. Then, I'll see if I need to start at square one.

Goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway), THANKS A BUNCH!

Bob

[radiobob]

Originally Posted by rainman

if you have a circular lnb you could shoot for nimiq 1 also at 91 degrees alot stronger signal.

Just so happens my neighbor was throwing out a DBS antenna (lots of 'em in the trash post-Katrina). I'm thinking about either pulling the LNB off just for grins and experiments, or mounting the whole dish on another part of the tower and just using it for reference.

Just need a day off...

Bob

[radiobob]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

You are using RG6 cable correct?

Posilutely! I've been doing contract engineering work for a TV station that had to operate out of industrial-style trailers after the hurricane made their new facility unusable. I helped 'em move back to their old, old facility and dumpster-dove for hundreds of feet of primo, low-mileage RG-6 from the trailers!

Interestingly enough, some of cable was Belden (I don't remember the number) which had the notation "420 MHz" stamped on it; I switched to another length (by a different manufacturer) stamped 3 GHz.

[pmb1010]

Originally Posted by wejones

I sure wouldn't start bending your support arm at this point. .

C'mon, guys you know what I meant by my earlier post.
"nudge" the arm in or out to see if there was any improvement.

Something is wrong here. Non-motor alignment should have produced much better results than he was getting. Running out of ideas, maybe his dish got stepped on by the UPS driver.

[radiobob]

Nah, I wasn't really serious about bending the arm...although after this experience I just might bend my elbow!

[rainman]

Originally Posted by radiobob

Nah, I wasn't really serious about bending the arm...although after this experience I just might bend my elbow!

sounds like a real good idea.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

C'mon, guys you know what I meant by my earlier post.
"nudge" the arm in or out to see if there was any improvement.

Something is wrong here. Non-motor alignment should have produced much better results than he was getting. Running out of ideas, maybe his dish got stepped on by the UPS driver.

First, To RadioBob.... I think I see the problem.... wrong Beer.... you need Iron City.

Second, re the "nudge", sorry,I wasn't sure, but I think it's good to make sure that Radiobob didn't interpret it as to start bending things. And since he's getting reception on one sat, his support arm can't be too far off, and I don't buy the stepped on dish or FL problems... this has got to be simple alignment. I still think that before he does ANYTHING to the support arm or focal length, that he needs to correct the alignment and the first step of that is finding his due south sat. Also, not knowing what process was involved in getting the reception of AMC4, it could also be that polarity might be responsible for the low signal levels he's getting, although the 30-55% reported is perfectly normal for some receivers. Basically, if he can get the channels he's reported getting on AMC4, there is no reason why he can't get G11 or IA8, unless there is something seriously wrong with the initial setup of the angles.

Back to Radiobob... I like the "local noon" thing for true south alignment... that is what I usually recommend too.... although the higher that the sun is in the sky, the harder it is to get a good bearing on it, but you can do it if you are careful. But I wanted to make sure that you are aligning your mount to true south, and not just turning the dish till it aims south. Ie you can use the dish, it you have motored it to the highest zero centered position, and have the dish mounted perfectly centered, but what you are looking for is having the mount aligned to the south. I assume this is what you were doing, but wanted to make sure. What I do, is find something plumb, and a plumb-bob hung from your tower would be ideal, then the shadow at local noon would point to true south. Then try to find some flat surface on your motor mount to align in that direction, then make sure your motor is centered, and the dish centered on the motor shaft. THEN, follow VJ9999's advice. Ie you'll have to motor a small amount west to G11. Since I think you said you couldn't do this automatically with your receiver, you may have to just bump the motor west a small amount, then try to find G11 as VJ recommended, using the dish elevation, NOT the motor elevation (assuming that the motor elevation is the most accurately set in your case).
When I do this, I use one of those hand held meters that squeal. I turn the dial so it is a medium pitch, and adjust to get a higher pitch squeal. One problem using the hand held meters is that, like Bordai1 said, the standard lnbfs will also downconvert the circular dbs signals, so sometimes it can be rather confusing when there are low power linear sats nearby to high power DBS sats. However in this case, the Nimiq sat is located in the same position as G11, so you should get a pretty strong reading on the hand held meter, and no need to switch to a circular lnbf for this.
Anyway, you MUST find your south sat before doing anything else.

And finally, relative to earlier messages about CW speeds. I tried and tried to learn CW for some 40 y