Beginner's Installation Problem: Signal Quality

[Sueng]

Hello all, just getting into satellites and FTA but like all beginners, I have problems. Did some research online and it turns out this is the most common beginner problem, not receiving signal quality. In order to help me I'll explain into full detail everything I've done to try to get this darned thing to work.

This is my system I received from Sadoun:
M-3 Motorized Mercury II DSS Choice Set which includes:
Mercury II Receiver$139.00FS80P 31" Fortec or Wingeard 30" Dish$55.00SG2100 Digipower Moteck HH Motor
$89.00
QPH031 Quad LNBF
$69.00SM21H 22KHz switch
$9.00Universal wall mount
I installed everything on the top of my homemade parlor and this is how the final installation looks like:

The mast, hopefully it is "plumb"


next, I looked up online all my information via Satellite Looker. My latitude is 26.1 N and my longitude is 80.29 W, rightfully so I was told to set my Motor Latitude to 26 and my dish elevation to 26. Which I hope I did right according to these pix.
Motor Latitude

dish elevation


Finally I pointed the dish to (what I hope is) true south. Mind you I didn't use a compass because I know which direction is south as I don't think I'm an idiot.
After turning on my receiver, I went to the antenna setup where I tried to use USALS to turn it to the direction of Galaxy 25 (97 W). My motor moved and this is basically what my satellite sees when it's in that direction.

I realized perhaps the tree was at fault and chose to use AMC 6 instead (72 W), this is the view that I get:


Now regardless of these clear skies, I am still getting 0 - 1 % of signal quality (it fluctuates). The signal strength (which I've heard) doesn't matter at 40 - 41%. Now it is good to note, that I have turned the elevation on the dish up and down and still no signal quality. I'm just about fed up as this is my second day of attempting, I've heard as many as 5 days to receive your first signal if you're a noob. Anywhose, I was hoping with these detailed steps, if someone can telling me what I'm doing wrong thats making me a complete failure at this project I'm undertaking.

Note: I don't know if this is a big deal, but when I turn off and turn on my receiver, my motor doesn't have green light and there will be no signal being read. It's not until I change my LNB type to 5150, that it begins reading signal. I don't know what this is but perhaps this may help?

[pmb1010]

whats your zip code?

the numbers for your dish seem right at 26 according to the SG2100 manual.
Being at 80 degress your most 'true south" sat would be 79W.

If you are using USALS you can "eyeball" true south, but did you adjust the number for magnetic ajustment necessary? Use a compass, walk away from your dish and look back at it. With your magetically corrected true south behind you look back at your dish. Is the LNB arm pefectly online with you? It will make it much easier to find your sats if you spend some time on getting this setting right.

The spot you are trying to point at is the size of a baseball at 100 feet away. it's a very small spot. It's very easy to miss.

The steps:
Have motor move to "zero" using USALS.
Point the whole thing true south.
Have the motor drive to your "most south Sat" - for you it's 79W. The dish will not move much.
Put the receiver on an active transponder <--- important! For 79 use this one 12182 H 23000

It's much easier if you have a small TV out by the dish for the aiming procedure. Very slowly move the dish elevation up and down, 1/8" at a time pausing while looking at the quality idicator for a blip.
When you get one, tighten things up a bit and now adjust whole motor side to side to try to maximize signal. Go back & forth between dish elevation and motor peaking for max quality.

NOW you can see if another sat to the sides are there along the arc using USALS.

[Sueng]

Thank you pmb, my zip code is 33322, I realize that I may be a little inaccurate, but I thought with technology so great nowadays it would correct human error. I will try those steps above tomorrow, looks like I'll have to get a compass now. I'll let everyone know my status tomorrow.
also, how does one "adjust magnetic" the number?

[pmb1010]

this thing:
Satellite Look Angles Satellite Heading Calculator Azimuth Elevation Skew Tilt LNBF Latitude and Longitude values

Actually Sadoun used to have a chart of the USA that gave the magnetic adjustment. I don't see it anymore.
I can't see on this chart where it gives the same info. I just changed the info to your zip and sat 79 for the south heading below. I liked the other pointing calculator they used to have better than this one.

from that your adjusted south should be about 183 degrees on a compass.

Find a boy scout. They'll have one to borrow

[kevino]

Just something to make sure, are you using the linear connection on that LNB for linear sats, and Circular for any DBS ones?


off topic, but I like your zucchini / squash in the photos.

[Sueng]

@kevino
Actually this is what happened, since that package came with the 22 kHz switch, I put in one Linear connection in the switch port A and the circular connection in the switch port B. The output (labeled RX) is a single line that would connect to the motor on the "to LNB" connector. Is this wrong?

Also, those are wintermelons, they grow much bigger than that though.

[pmb1010]

I might make this suggestion

to uncomplicate things a bit take out the 22khz switch.
Until you get comforatble with the screens/settings in the receiver this might complicate things a bit.

I think you should run from receiver to motor to Linear port of LNBF with RG6 (no signal meters etc) to get started

Once you get the arc locked in then put the switch back in and if you lose signal you'll know why (settings for which 22kzh port being selected)

[Sueng]

Here's the update on my current status: Not working still
Progress: nope!

Here's what I did today. I went out to buy a liquid filled compass and measured my magnetic south...about 183-185. Turned around and my satellite pointed that way too.

Listening to pmb's first post, I reset to zero at USALS menu, then moved it to 79 W AMC 5. Took off the 22 kHz switch and connected the motor directly to one of the L lines on the LNB.

Still got 40 strength 0 -1 quality, so this time, I attached a Satellite Finder to attempt to find the signal. Here's what I found out. When I elevated the dish to 40, the satellite finder beeped like crazy, I lowered the dB to 5 and then went to adjust east/west, got a loud beeping sound when I pointed it closer to the satellite and wouldn't beep if I went either way. I assume this is the peak of where the satellite is located now.

Went back to adjusting elevation from 40, but if I go down or up, there is no signal from the satellite finder, so 40 is the peak elevation. Thinking I finally got it, I went to my tv and still.....40 - 41 strength, 0 -1 quality. BOO!

So now that you guys know my situation, I'll give you a run down with pictures and what I have on my receiver menus.

Receiver antenna setup menu:
Satellite - AMC 5 79 W
LNB Type - Univ LNB(9750, 10600)
Positioner - USALS
Transponder - 12182/H/23000
0/22 kHz - Auto
Switch - None
Input - None
Port - 1

USALS menu:
USALS
Satellite - 79 W
transponder - 12182/H/23000
Longitude - 80.3 W
Latitude - 26.1 N

Pictures of the setup I am leaving it off for today.
Turn around after measuring on compass, this is what I see


Final elevation point:


The view the satellite has of the sky at this point


Well I'll give this a couple of more shots before I call in the pros. Do you guys think maybe my LNB may be defective? Or would I not even have signal strength if that were the case? What about menu setup, is Univ LNB (9750, 10600) correct for this type of setup? Also I notice you all mention to use RG6 cable. Are these specifically different from the cables that are used for connecting TVs to antennas? I've been using cables that hav been laying around the house to connect my LNB to my motor. The motor is using that high quality grade sadoun gave me.

Appreciate the help guys.

[jdbob]

Originally Posted by Sueng

even have signal strength if that were the case? What about menu setup, is Univ LNB (9750, 10600) correct for this type of setup? Also I notice you all mention to use RG6 cable. Are these specifically different from the cables that are used for connecting TVs to antennas? I've been using cables that hav been laying around the house to connect my LNB to my motor. The motor is using that high quality grade sadoun gave me.

For a linear satellite set the LNB to 10750. The only circular satellite channel of interest is NASA on Echostar 7, for that one you set the LNB to 11250.

Did you need to use all of the 50' of RG6 from the motor to your receiver? If not, then you could buy some RG6 connectors and cut the excess off the 50' for your other cables. For a short cable run from motor to LNB RG59 (if that's what you are using) is probably OK for now, but RG6 is better.

[pmb1010]

yeah the LNB must be set to "Standard" to work on AMC5 for the LNBF QPH-031.

You want RG-6 cable for the long run. Look at the cable, it's normally printed on it what it is.
Cable TV uses RG-6. Radio shack sells it, as does Home Depot.
A tv install might have used RG-59 and thats not good for the frequencies needed for satellite reception.

you're getting close. keep at it.

[Sueng]

Well guys, tried putting it on LNB Type 10750 like jdbob suggested but that didn't work. Set it back to Univ LNB. What I tried today was taking a direct cable from one of the L lines from the LNB and connecting it to the receiver. After that didn't work I tried connecting two lines from both L lines and connecting it to a switch and having that connect to the motor. That made it worse.
Restored my original setup, tried to skew the LNB a bit to see if it would make a difference (it did not) and then I redid the elevation and east/west orientation with the satellite finder included from Sadoun. Basically I had my identical setup as last time. Still trying to point it to AMC 5 79 W but no luck.
Going to try one last time by purchasing this RG6 cable you guys are referring to...I only actually need one, to connect from the LNB to the motor so it shouldn't get too expensive.

After this last attempt with RG6, I'll be spent. I'll hire some professional to come over to tell me what I'm doing wrong its just become one big headache.

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME ON THIS THREAD. I couldn't have done this stuff without you.

[pmb1010]

Universal is wrong.
It MUST be "standard" . The fequency the receiver is expecting the LNBF to be sending must match.
The difference is like trying to use a Phillips screwdriver on a regular slotted screw. It just aint gonna work when set wrong.

I suspect you do not have a TV by the dish to search for signal. The spot to find is very very small.

Sorry you need to pay someone to line it up but thats the breaks sometimes.

For 3 feet of cable, not having RG-6 won't matter. It's the long run from motor to receiver thats important.

[Sueng]

Unfortunately pmb, under this particular model of reciever, there is no "standard" setting. Am I to believe alas that the receiver supplied with this set is incorrect? Also I do have a tv,but its not RIGHT next to my satellite. I have it about 2 yards away from me and if I need to see a signal, I adjust it a smidge, then I step off the ladder and then look at the TV.

[pmb1010]

Originally Posted by Sueng

Unfortunately pmb, under this particular model of reciever, there is no "standard" setting. Am I to believe alas that the receiver supplied with this set is incorrect? Also I do have a tv,but its not RIGHT next to my satellite. I have it about 2 yards away from me and if I need to see a signal, I adjust it a smidge, then I step off the ladder and then look at the TV.

LNB Type 10750 = standard LNBF

Receiver is fine. With many dozens of receivers out there - theres no way to remember them all when offering help. Standard and Universal are the typical names to identify the 2 types. How it's displayed on the receiver is either name or frequency. I guess for your receiver its by freq. It must be set to 10750 to even begin to find a signal for Linear sats (ie: 97W)

Doing your setup that way is VERY VERY difficult. You will move right past the setting spot too easily. it can take hours up and down a ladder.
Keeping an eye on the TV monitior while adjusting is just about a necissity.

[Sueng]

Alas pmb. After two weeks of hiatus I decided to pick up this hobby project. This time it is a success. I have successfully obtained both AMC 5 and Galaxy3C with channels thank you for everyone's help in this topic. This topic may be deemed closed now.

[Jim-S]

Hi........I don't know if you have the system all put together yet, I just went through this also. I have the same setup.
Just fyi this how mine is setup.
It was suggested to me in the antenna set up with LNB LPH-031 with the S-SM21H switch.
LNB---10750 standard (Linear)......11250 for Circular
Positioner---USALS
22khz off for Linear
22khz on for Circular
No need for Switch, input or port in the menu
On the LNB I have "L" going to "B" on the switch (OFF)----and "C" going to "A" (22khz)(ON) on the switch and of course the "RX" on the switch going to motor.
This may seem redundant to you, but I just wanted to help out a little.
I have found to have a little patience when moving dish. When I moved mine repeatedly it I think got confused it took a little while to move or didn't move. Now I wait a little bit between moves, it works fine.
Jim

[Vitruvius]

Seung, I would suggest you re-attach your switch when you do connect the circular LNB. The switch should have all the coax connections pointing down so when it is put in its plastic casing it is protected from rain. Water is not good for these connections and it looked like in your photos you had the switch sideways.

Good to see you got signal.