Type of R6 cable to use?

[Vitruvius]

I plan to send underground pvc conduit 150 feet from my house to the 180cm motorized dish. I see there are loads of different type of RG6 cable out there.
Standard Cable
Solid Copper core
Copper Clad Steel core
Quad Sheild protected

I assume the signal is sent down the center wire and believe that solid copper is better than the copper clad steel. Is the Quad Shield what it sounds like, just a shield to protect disturbance of the signal? The more protection the better?
Will standard cable with solid copper core be sufficient for my conduit protected cable? I will be running the power and signal cable through the same conduit, so should quad shield be used?
Is Quad shield with copper clad steel better than normal shielded solid copper core?

You see.. I am a newbie, but just want to get the best possible signal...

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

I plan to send underground pvc conduit 150 feet from my house to the 180cm motorized dish. I see there are loads of different type of RG6 cable out there.
Standard Cable
Solid Copper core
Copper Clad Steel core
Quad Sheild protected

I assume the signal is sent down the center wire and believe that solid copper is better than the copper clad steel. Is the Quad Shield what it sounds like, just a shield to protect disturbance of the signal? The more protection the better?
Will standard cable with solid copper core be sufficient for my conduit protected cable? I will be running the power and signal cable through the same conduit, so should quad shield be used?
Is Quad shield with copper clad steel better than normal shielded solid copper core?

You see.. I am a newbie, but just want to get the best possible signal...

Relative to signal, I doubt that you'd see a difference between the various types. I tend to use relatively cheap stuff myself. I bought a big spool from Sadoun several years ago. The only thing I would comment on though, is whatever type you get, try to make sure that the connectors and crimper, if you use crimp type, are compatable with the type cable you get. It makes things a lot easier if putting a connector on only takes a minute rather than being a 10 minute process. For the inexpensive cable I use, the cheap RS connectors and a crimper I also got at RS work fairly well, although I would prefer that the crimper was a slightly smaller size, as to get it to work well, I need to wrap something around the connector barrel or it doesn't bring it down quite small enough.

But the cheap connectors with the cheap coax is pretty easy to work with. The inner barrel of the connector slips in between the outer insulation and the metal shield, so that with a cheap coax stripper I have, I can strip a half inch of insulation/shield off the center conductor, then slip in the connector (using a small vice grip, as it takes a bit of force), pushing it in until you see the center insulation start to come through the hole in the connector. Then I crimp it and trim off the center conductor. Whole thing takes about a minute.

Since you're about to try to fish coax through a conduit, another technique is to tie a cotton ball onto a fishing line, and put it into one end of the conduit, then take a vacuum cleaner and suck on the other end of the conduit, and zap, it will suck the cotton ball and fishing line through. Then you can pull heavier line back through, and pull the coax with the heavier line. It's good to pull another length of heavy line through with the coax, so you'll have it ready for whenever you need to pull another length of coax through.

[Vitruvius]

Wejones... thanks for your quick response. I love this website because all your experts are so quick to share your experience.

I have read on other forums that any kind of solid copper core is better than copper clad steel with quad shield. see: Quad shielded or not? - CocoonTech.com - Home Automation , Home Theater , Home Security

As for my 3/4" conduit, I have run power to my shed with 1/2". I will put two lines of coax, one line of 18 ga. 5 wire (for the motor control), and a string for future pulls.

I plan to lay it all out and thread the wires through the overal 150 ft distance. Then I will glue the conduit piece together, after it is all laid out and wired. Then I will bury it 4" below the soil... I am not looking forward to this. The power wire was burried 18" below grade, because that is a code requirement for power (it might be 12"). I had to rent a Ditchwitch for that and it was still a lot of work and left a scar in the yard till middle summer.

Thanks again Mr. Jones.

[1captain]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

I plan to send underground pvc conduit 150 feet from my house to the 180cm motorized dish. I see there are loads of different type of RG6 cable out there.
Standard Cable
Solid Copper core
Copper Clad Steel core
Quad Sheild protected

I assume the signal is sent down the center wire and believe that solid copper is better than the copper clad steel. Is the Quad Shield what it sounds like, just a shield to protect disturbance of the signal? The more protection the better?
Will standard cable with solid copper core be sufficient for my conduit protected cable? I will be running the power and signal cable through the same conduit, so should quad shield be used?
Is Quad shield with copper clad steel better than normal shielded solid copper core?

You see.. I am a newbie, but just want to get the best possible signal...

Just like Wejone said you wont noticed a difference in signal with all of the types of coax that you listed. but i will give you some insite on a coax that you didnt list, which is flooded coax. what i would do if it was mine i would put in a flooded coax with out the pvc an that is basicly for my area south central fl, dont know up in va. reason why is down here when pvc is down in the ground moisture will collect in it due to our high humidty, an the coax will be laying in the pipe in some water, an with some coaxs, water over time can get into them, where as a flooded line is ment to repell water an nicks in it, with also a much heaver outher jacket on it. now Vitruvius when i say over time about 6 to 10 years you will see that a unflooded coax will get like a white powder on the inside of the dielectric an the sheild if you ever replace a fitting on it you will see it, but a flooded coax wont get that way it just gets stickey, an will still look good. an this is just to give you my 2 cents of what i have worked with tru out my years, so hope all helps Vitruvius an good luck on your install.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

... thanks for your quick response. I love this website because all your experts are so quick to share your experience.
....

We're all quick to share experience, but none of us are experts.

We're all still learning. Lots of different opinions on the best way to do things. I like this forum because even people with different opinions can get along. You learn more by taking bits from different viewpoints.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by 1captain

...... i will give you some insite on a coax that you didnt list, which is flooded coax. what i would do if it was mine i would put in a flooded coax with out the pvc an that is basicly for my area south central fl, dont know up in va. reason why is down here when pvc is down in the ground moisture will collect in it due to our high humidty, an the coax will be laying in the pipe in some water, ....

Interesting. I never heard of flooded coax.

Where I used to live, down in Md, I put my coax in pvc pipe that didn't have any way for the water to drain out, and like you said, it ended up meaning that the coax was submerged as the pipe filled with water and never emptied.

Up here in Maine, from that first experience, I decided not to put the coax in pipe, but instead just bury the coax directly in the ground. Well the problem with that, was that with the rocks and stones in the ground, and the freezing/thawing and running tractors and cars over the buried wires, the problem wasn't water, but physical damage to the coax. So I went back to re-stringing my coaxes in conduit, but I made sure that the water could drain out. I'm using the conduit just to protect the coax from being cut or crushed by rocks. I can't remember what size conduit I'm using, but I think it's close to 2". I have 2 runs of ribbon cable and about 3 runs of plain RG6, so it's getting a bit crowded. I only have about 40' of conduit, which goes from my dishes to my garage, then upstairs in the garage across to a passageway to my house on the other side of the garage, into the 2nd floor of my house, then following the water pipes down to the basement where my receivers are. Total run is around 250' even though as the crow flies it's only 150', but with all the ups and downs I've added a lot of extra coax.

OH... and having a tractor with a front end loader and back-hoe helps when digging trenches for the conduit. Not as neat as a ditch witch type thing I'm sure, but on the other hand, there are rocks up here that it took a backhoe to get out.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by wejones

Interesting. I never heard of flooded coax.

Where I used to live, down in Md, I put my coax in pvc pipe that didn't have any way for the water to drain out, and like you said, it ended up meaning that the coax was submerged as the pipe filled with water and never emptied.

Up here in Maine, from that first experience, I decided not to put the coax in pipe, but instead just bury the coax directly in the ground. Well the problem with that, was that with the rocks and stones in the ground, and the freezing/thawing and running tractors and cars over the buried wires, the problem wasn't water, but physical damage to the coax. So I went back to re-stringing my coaxes in conduit, but I made sure that the water could drain out. I'm using the conduit just to protect the coax from being cut or crushed by rocks. I can't remember what size conduit I'm using, but I think it's close to 2". I have 2 runs of ribbon cable and about 3 runs of plain RG6, so it's getting a bit crowded. I only have about 40' of conduit, which goes from my dishes to my garage, then upstairs in the garage across to a passageway to my house on the other side of the garage, into the 2nd floor of my house, then following the water pipes down to the basement where my receivers are. Total run is around 250' even though as the crow flies it's only 150', but with all the ups and downs I've added a lot of extra coax.

OH... and having a tractor with a front end loader and back-hoe helps when digging trenches for the conduit. Not as neat as a ditch witch type thing I'm sure, but on the other hand, there are rocks up here that it took a backhoe to get out.

Know what you mean on the big rocks Bill I ve got some on my place you can't even get out with a dozer.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by rainman

Know what you mean on the big rocks Bill I ve got some on my place you can't even get out with a dozer.

Yeah... I have one at the end of my driveway that is as big as a volkswagen. When the road was widened, they had a big excavator trying to dig the gutter along the side of the road. The excavator had to dig all around it, and then couldn't come close to lifting it to where he wanted to move it. All it could do was roll it, so I told them to just roll it downhill to along side my driveway. Looks pretty neat there. It's about 5'x6'x10' sort of egg shaped. My whole driveway is lined with rocks that average about 3' in diameter, and along the road, the property is bordered by 4-7' rocks. Where my dishes are, there's a big 5' diameter rock, and a bunch of smaller ones. Most of the big rocks are fairly rounded though, because they were deposited by glaciers, but the small rocks where I made my trench were all broken sharp rocks. The rocks up here are one of the reasons we bought the property. We have several back in the woods that are the size of the Volkswagen rock, or even bigger, plus some even bigger ones that are part of ledge/bedrock sticking out. Some stick up 12' or more above ground. Plus, many of the rocks up here are a type of pegmatite (?sp?) that have big chunks of quartz crystals, and interesting kinds of mica and feldspar, plus some granite with veins of igneous rock that flowed into cracks to form neat layers. Really wish I had taken some courses in geology when I was in school. My wife took a course, which is where all my info came from, as I don't know one from another, except for quartz and mica.

But I LIKE ROCKS! Except when they cut through my coax.

[rainman]

Agreed they make for some great scenery. and quartz has a nice sparkle when the sun hits it just right.

[jp498]

Conduits are supposed to be surrounded by sand before they are backfilled with the local material. Probably only a few electricians actually do this, I'm sure nobody else does.

Our power company has pretty good instructions on burying conduits:
http://www.cmpco.com/MediaLibrary/3/...ted_080707.pdf

I have seen a strong metal conduit pipe crushed by small rocks that was buried 5-6 feet down. Probably the rocks moved around and damaged the pipe (and the wiring in it, and caused water to flow from the pipe into the building).

At our office, there was a small stream flowing through the basement. The water main out front (probably 6") was leaking according to the water analysis. The water company dug things up, flooded our street and they had to shut off our street. A rock had worked its way up (over many years) and punctured the pipe underneath. This was probably a 6-8" fieldstone.

Gallery 2006- :: 2005/03/31 - AquaMaine fixes our leaking sidewalk :: DSC_0071


If you don't have much to bury and don't want to go all out to protect things, perhaps liquidtight conduit might be flexible enough to bend around moving rocks instead of break. It's not cheap though. Otherwise, don't count on things lasting forever underground.

[lumpkin666]

Originally Posted by wejones

Interesting. I never heard of flooded coax.

That is the stuff that is normally orange instead of black. Although I'd like to say that I use flooded cable whenever I bury, I don't. If I had a great source for the stuff at a reasonably affordable price though, I'd change my tune in an instance - it's supposed to stand up pretty well to weather as well as small punctures... which means more watchin tv and less fixin!

[wejones]

Originally Posted by jp498

At our office, there was a small stream flowing through the basement. The water main out front (probably 6") was leaking according to the water analysis. The water company dug things up, flooded our street and they had to shut off our street. A rock had worked its way up (over many years) and punctured the pipe underneath. This was probably a 6-8" fieldstone.
..

Off topic, but related to streams running through basements...
A couple years after our house was built, in the spring, when mud season was just starting, all of a sudden water started running into my basement through the conduit that the power lines come into my breaker box. Water was running into the back of the breaker box, and running out of the box onto the floor. I thought that perhaps the conduit, had been punctured, and was leaking. The conduit goes through the concrete wall, outside, and under my driveway to meter on the other side of the driveway. Well, I called up the contractor and electrician who connected the power to the house, and got this "ahh.... I think I may know what's wrong, but you'll have to wait a month until we can get an excavator in there".
Well I rigged up a plastic cooler with a hose connection, and put it under the breaker box, and ran the hose out through a hole I drilled through the wall on the other side of the house. Eventually the snow-melt stopped, and the stream dried up, and they brought the excavator in (this was before I bought my back-hoe), and they knew exactly where to dig. Turns out that apparently when they installed the conduit, they ran out of conduit, so they ran it about 80% of the way to the power pole, then ran conduit from the power pole, to meet it, but came up about 1 section short, so there was about 4' of the power line coming out of the conduit into bare ground, then back into the conduit. Since this was under my driveway, that freezes very deep in the winter, it was frozen underneath the conduit, and when the thaw started, my driveway was a lake and was thawing from above, and the water just poured into the conduit leading to my house. (Off the driveway, where there is snow cover, thawing generally occurs from the bottom up.)
Anyway, I was kind of annoyed that they would do such a thing, but I was happy that they fixed it for no charge. But it makes me wonder what other shortcuts they took when building my house.
But I'm glad that they didn't come out right away to fix it, because the stream into my basement was relatively slow, kind of like a faucet that is flowing a bit more than a drip, just enough to be a steady stream, and that low flow was because the water had to seep through the ground around the conduit. But if they had dug it up right away, the hole would have filled 3' deep with water, and it would have been POURING into my circuit panel box under pressure, which wouldn't have been good. But it sure had me a bit nervous with water running through the power box for over a month.

[Vitruvius]

Well, I picked up 500 ft of copper core (not quad), but it is swept for 3,000 mhz. What does that mean? That it is tested and working?
I got it at Lowes for $45 which is cheap.. I guess.
I still have to trench the earth, and will probably start that when warmer weather comes.
One thing I saw for the PVC conduit was an expansion fitting,which was pretty neat. It was one pipe in another with a rubber ring seal, and could be adjusted. The thing was about $11.
Would I need something for the expansion of the PVC for about 150 ft length with a couple of bends?