Need help with my new VisionSat IV 200PVR and satellite system

[Drew]

I would like to know if anyone can help get my system up and running here.I very comfortable with my knowledge of computers but I am rather new to FTA,been reading off and on over the summer.I was looking for a box/receiver with a pvr function.After seeing several reviews I decided t get one.So I bought a visionsat IV 200 pvr.I...Here is a profile of my rig:

Visionsat IV 200 PVR receiver.
Fortec Star FC 80cm Dish/FC 80U-Bolt Mount Bracket Version_(sandoun)
Sandoun Universal Dual LNBF IP:10.7-12.75GHz.OP:950-2150,LO:9.75GHz-10.6GHz
STAB HH100 motor (Sandoun)
Pitched roof mounted.
RG6 quad with grounding cable

HTPC:
Mother Board:ASUS M2NPV-VM
CPU: AMD/A64 X2 4600+ 2.4Ghz AM2 Windsor
RAM:Super Talent 2GB 1Gx2 800DDR
Graphics Card:Gigibyte Geforce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
Dvico Fusion HDTV-RT Gold Plus TV Capture Card
PSU Antec 550W for PCI express
HDD1 160GB Western Digital IDE
HDD2 250Gb Western Digital IDE
Back up Drive/Network Storage 500GB Western Digital External
JVC Sound System/DVD player with upconverting to HD 1080i,plays DiVX,Xvid,SVCD,MP4,all DVD formats...5.1 Sound Arrangement.
Primary Display ViewSonic Flat Screen 19" CRT
Secondary Display:Samsung LN-S4096D HDTV

Now I just finish setting this up on my roof this saturday afternoon.I found out all my numbers and settings thru links at Sandoun's site.Did a site survey and I have a decent clear view from the south to south east then back to south south west and west.Here is my location numbers and what I used to position my dish: My latitude is 42.973,Longitude is 83.688, my Azimuth is 187 degrees.Dish elevation come out to be 23.4,motor elevation is the same as latitude 42.973.My true southern sateliite is AMC 9 at 87.0 W Degrees.Now by the time I got done setting this all up it was near nightfall here,I'm an older fella and shouldn't be up on a ladder in the dark..so I felt comforttable with my installation and decided to hook the receiver up and see if I could get any thing,since this receiver supports USALS standard I decided to follow their instructtions insetting it up.Hooked the reciever up and went thru the set up.Then I decide to see if I could get anything.Since my southern satellite is AMC9 I went to lyngsat and most channels there are encrypted..so I decided to go to a satellite with free FTA channels AMC 3 has some..now when I went to scan channels,I see a signal strength in the mid 80's..but when I auto scan It comes back no TV or radio channels,In fact on several Sats. I get a strong signal strength in the 80's,but no TV or radio channels when I auto scanned,I know I must be doing something wrong with the set up of this receiver..now its getting late and I'll try again tomorrow,I might be leaving some info out ,but I think the advanced people here know where I'm at,and I can provide more info if needed..I hope I covered everything and would appreciate any help in getting a foot hold here..I would really appreciate..thanks in advance..take care and godbless.

[pmb1010]

I can't speak for the receiver you have, but most have both a Signal level, and Quality level indicator.
The signal doesn't matter. The quality indicator is the one that will show you locked on an active transponder.

And, that is the trick --- you must be "tuned" to an active transponder before you hunt for signals.

The procedure is:
- Set motor to center or reference or zero or whatever your box has for USALS central setting.
- Point the whole mess to your azimuth setting (187 deg on a compass)
- have the motor drive to AMC3
- move the whole thing on the pole, slowly side to side looking for quality indication while tuned to active transponder.

It really helps to have a small tv out by the dish and use short cables to hook things up. The aiming point to hit is very very small. Moving the dish just an 1/8 of an inch will lose the quality signal indicator.

Use this as a strong transponder on AMC3 to aim:
11736 V 6104 or 11716 H 4859

[Drew]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

I can't speak for the receiver you have, but most have both a Signal level, and Quality level indicator.
The signal doesn't matter. The quality indicator is the one that will show you locked on an active transponder.

And, that is the trick --- you must be "tuned" to an active transponder before you hunt for signals.

The procedure is:
- Set motor to center or reference or zero or whatever your box has for USALS central setting.
- Point the whole mess to your azimuth setting (187 deg on a compass)
- have the motor drive to AMC3
- move the whole thing on the pole, slowly side to side looking for quality indication while tuned to active transponder.

It really helps to have a small tv out by the dish and use short cables to hook things up. The aiming point to hit is very very small. Moving the dish just an 1/8 of an inch will lose the quality signal indicator.

Use this as a strong transponder on AMC3 to aim:
11736 V 6104 or 11716 H 4859

Thanks for your response mate.It is going to be very hard for me to place a TV and the receiver out where my dish is it's on the roof.This is really a 2 man job and I'm an older fellow can only climb up and down the ladder so much.I know I'm able to drive that motor though,I could go east and west with it,and then I was able to input my latitude and longitude coordinates from my location here lat=42.97N and Lon.=83.68W and the drove the motor back to 0 my original starting spot,I climbed back up to see it on the roof.Now my goal is to find a transponder from my closest Sat..would be AMC9 but all channels there are encrypted according to Lyngsat,my next closest Sat is AMC3 which has FTA channels,will keep trying and use your suggestion to aim the dish.My best bet would be to find someone local in the Flint Michigan area that knows about motorized dishes,that could come out and help me point/aim this dish to get started..I would appreciate any other suggestions from those familiar with this VisionSat IV 200 PVR receiver,and their experiences..thanks in advance.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Drew

...Now my goal is to find a transponder from my closest Sat..would be AMC9 but all channels there are encrypted according to Lyngsat,my next closest Sat is AMC3 which has FTA channels,...

Just a minor point here, but Lyngsat doesn't show any encrypted channels on AMC9. I think that you are mis-reading the chart. Most of the channels there are "feeds". These are not generally encrypted, however the problem is that they are not 24/7, but rather come and go. Sometimes they will be there, but more often than not, nothing there.
There are 24/7 signals on AMC9, however they are internet data transponders, not video. However, for alignment purposes, they are fine. For alignment, you don't need unencrypted video, all you're looking for is a signal to lock on that will give you a signal/quality reading on your receiver to help with the alignment, and those data channels work fine. I've used the 12180/30000 signal myself, to find that sat. Once you've found the sat, you can do a blind scan, and will usually pick up some of the "feed" transponders.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by wejones

Just a minor point here, but Lyngsat doesn't show any encrypted channels on AMC9. I think that you are mis-reading the chart. Most of the channels there are "feeds". These are not generally encrypted, however the problem is that they are not 24/7, but rather come and go. Sometimes they will be there, but more often than not, nothing there.
There are 24/7 signals on AMC9, however they are internet data transponders, not video. However, for alignment purposes, they are fine. For alignment, you don't need unencrypted video, all you're looking for is a signal to lock on that will give you a signal/quality reading on your receiver to help with the alignment, and those data channels work fine. I've used the 12180/30000 signal myself, to find that sat. Once you've found the sat, you can do a blind scan, and will usually pick up some of the "feed" transponders.

Hey there mate thanks for the info on that satellite.This is my southern most satellite and I'm glad that there is enough of quality signal there to go by as I try to align this dish again.I'm going to give this another try.I have a television I will put out on the porch and set to where I can see from the roof.I feel I'm getting close to getting this right.Going to try moving the elevation up and down a bit,and moving the dish from side to side.I have read that you have to allow a few seconds in between movements to allow the receiver to catch up.I have this dish set up with a level mast on the roof.All my settings/numbers I got from links on this site.I'm close.It's just a matter of moving this dish till I can get a Quality % along with the signal strength.Then its a matter of locking that position in to the receiver.Then I'm told that for the rest of the satellites east to west should fall in line after.Thanks again wish me luck....from one "canky crumudgeon" to another

[Drew]

Well I just had another go at this installation,trying to find a Quality signal...but no go..and I know I have this dish installed correctly..went thru several sweeps going as little as as a 1/4 inch at a time,adjusting all different ways..could not get Quality%...so I gave Sandoun a call to see if I could have a tech come out and check this out,because after all..many of you here with "experience" say it's never the LNBF no never the LNBF that's bad,it's the person installing it blah blah.....they refered me to an outfit called Buccaneer Communications who sent a local guy out here that installs these FTA systems as well as DN set ups..he was just here.Told me I had the dish installed right..even pointed correctly..he put this dish on his Birddog meter and could not get any Quality either..not even able to hit DirecTV Sat..let alone AMC 9..he tells me it's a bad LNBF that Sandoun sold me..he's telling me to get a different LNBF and I should be good to go..oh and he's saying that the whole assembly for this dish/roof mount is s**t along with the LNBF that Sandoun is selling people.The tech showed me a better set up bracket for a roof mount that should allow for a better movement as you make your adjustments,to allign theses dishes.The ones Sandoun sells,has teeth that grab into the mast.He showed me a better mount.. and I found this available thru Satellite AV website http://www.satelliteav.com/shop/item/DEA-SYS3.He's telling me that this FC 80U U-Bolt Mount Bracket version is sh$t for mounting motorized dishes..I feel that Sandoun should replace this LNBF free of charge,with one that you know "works",with out having to go thru all this business of a 20% restocking fee,filling out this form and that form etc etc.just to send this thing back...I'm going to have to go else were to find a replacement for this LNBF I think.I'll probably won't buy from Sandoun anymore..so to all that have had this same problem with dish allignment it could very well be a BAD LNBF,that they sold you..

[jimneycricket]

Hello Drew,,have you got the Antenna config set-up right? when you click menu and go into dish settings, this has got to be configered for the LNB that you are using, this system works on many LNB's for example OCS-DP,Legacy,Quad etc,etc. when in dish settings there will be two bars at the bottom level % and quality %,,these above settings must match your system.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by jimneycricket

Hello Drew,,have you got the Antenna config set-up right? when you click menu and go into dish settings, this has got to be configered for the LNB that you are using, this system works on many LNB's for example OCS-DP,Legacy,Quad etc,etc. when in dish settings there will be two bars at the bottom level % and quality %,,these above settings must match your system.

100% sure that I had everything set up correctly mate.Sandoun Universal Dual LNBF IP:10.7-12.75GHz.OP:950-2150,LO:9.75GHz-10.6GHz= universal setting,in the receiver set up interface.As I said in my previous post,the technician that was here assured me I had everything set up correctly,and felt bad I had been doing these sweeps back and forth in small 1/8th increments,adjusting the elevation as I went along,for the last week or so been trying to get quality.I have clear line of site,should not have been a problem..and I'm a patient guy...old maybe..and not part of the instant gratification generation..I took my time to go through the steps.He tells me it should have taken him a few minutes tops,with his Birdog Sat meter to get a Quality signal.He spent nearly an hour trying to find something,should have at least hit the direct TV Sat..no joy..he told me it's the LNBF sold by Sadoun

[snyper1982]

I am sorry about your troubles, but to blame sadoun for a bad part seems a bit, well..... rediculous. I mean, they are just a reseller after all. Certainly you don't expet them to open up and test every item they sale before they ship them out do you? Even if you would like that, then you would get people complaining about getting opened parts that aren't really new, and being charged full price, etc.

I can understand your troubles with a restocking fee in this circumstance, espeically with a tech that they recomended backing up your claim of a bad LNBF. I too would be upset about that if they were unable to waive the restocking fee. I am confident if you call sadoun and talk to them, you can get this taken care of. As far as the forms, that is standard procedure for send back items, it is called an RMA, and EVERY online company I have ever used, uses some form of RMA policy in order to retun an item, for whatever the reason, defective or not. That is just how it works when ordering online.

Again, I feel bad about your troubles, and if they don't waive the restocking fee, I do not blame you for not wanting to do further business with them. Thes rest of your issues though, I just don't agree with.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Drew

100% sure that I had everything set up correctly mate.
......
As I said in my previous post,the technician that was here assured me I had everything set up correctly,

Originally Posted by Drew

he's telling me to get a different LNBF and I should be good to go..oh and he's saying that the whole assembly for this dish/roof mount is s**t along with the LNBF

One thing I've learned over the years is that any time someone is "100% sure" of ANYTHING, he is wrong, at least about being sure. Another thing I've learned is that when technicians say things like this, there is usually a motive of wanting to sell something.

Until you have a working system, and can substitute same type LNBFs, and show that one works and one doesn't, I still say that you have no proof that the lnbf is at fault.

Although I have had issues with some of Sadoun's policies, if they just took back equipment that wasn't proven to be bad no questions asked, it would cost the rest of us more to buy things there, so I'm glad they don't make it too easy to return things.

[lumpkin666]

You mean to tell me that this Buccaneer Communications installer who installs FTA and Dish didn't just replace the lnbf for one that works and charge you a reasonable replacement price? If he didn't replace the lnbf, then how the heck can he be positive that the lnbf is bad?

My thoughts are:
1) The guy is not a true FTA satellite installer (Buccaneer satellite?? come on!)
2) The guy probably didn't realize that he needed to use different settings on his bird dog for a universal lnbf (since he probably doesn't use em)
3) The guy is a hack - if he's badmouthing someone who sells satellite equipment and badmouthing their products .. but not even accomplishing the goal of getting you up and running.. that's a sure sign that the guy was out of his league and trying to pass off his inadequacies by blaming someone else. Why didn't someone who is a FTA installer bring the necessary parts with him to get the job done? (not having a spare lnbf?? YIKES, I have a handful of different lnb and lnbf configurations sitting in the corner of my office just incase the need comes up... and I'm not charging anyone for any installation services!)
4) The mount is fine. I've done several like that, never had a problem. Maybe this guy is used to something else.. that doesn't make what you have automatically crap. You should only need to aim once, so the most important part of a mount would be it's ability to stay put so that you don't have to re-aim after a big wind - hence the nice teeth. (The link you sent really didn't show me anything special)
5) Everyone always blames the lnb when things don't work. I've never EVER heard of a bad LNB out of the box. Anytime that I suspect a bad lnb, I replace it with a spare to make sure (only once was it the lnb.. outta tons of times.. and it was an old lnb, past its prime)

[jimneycricket]

That is why I asked him about his set-up in fact I have a box the same as his the Visonsat is a new box but the configuration is a little different from others, if the LNB was bad why didn't the Tech get one of his own and try it to make sure?

If I was hooking up a guy's system and could not get anything I would try a different one but first I would make sure the config. was the way it should be and my aim was correct. I dare to say just because they work for Direct or Dish does not make them an expert in the field.

It seems the Tech wanted to sell him a pay package, I might be wrong but that is what it seems to me.

[rainman]

Being in the service field.(Automotive not Satellite) it is very easy to blame a part as the problem but unless you are willing to substitute a known good part to see if you are right mean you haven't done your job very well. as far as parts from Sadoun I have always got top quality parts at a good price and very fast and courtiest service knowing the man personaly he will do what it takes to make things right. as far as bad mouthing his company because of something someone said without anything to back it up is just wrong.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by rainman

Being in the service field.(Automotive not Satellite) it is very easy to blame a part as the problem but unless you are willing to substitute a known good part to see if you are right mean you haven't done your job very well. as far as parts from Sadoun I have always got top quality parts at a good price and very fast and courtiest service knowing the man personaly he will do what it takes to make things right. as far as bad mouthing his company because of something someone said without anything to back it up is just wrong.

Hey mate I'm just passing along the information as was told to me.After I had called Sadoun for assistance/support with this dish set up they referred me to a company they use called Buccaneer Communications inc.I called..they took my information and I had asked for a technician familiar with free to air systems.They sent out a guy that checked my system out,and gave me this information after he had tested with his meter.This is what he had to say about what I have here on the roof.Since you all have jumped on me here..I'm just a customer,trying to get a system up and running.Now I can only assume what you all are saying is true,that Sadoun is a reputable company,that Sadoun would only use reliable people that know their field of expertise,for their support for the products in which they sell.But it would be interesting to actually know how many of these LNBF's coming in from China are defective these days,and how many get sent back to the factory, where they were manufactured.The guy didn't try to "sell me " anything extra.I would also like to add that I had asked him if he had something on his truck that he could use to see if he could get my system up and running,which he said he did not..then he was gone,and I was out a $75.00 service call...I have another LNBF on order should arrive one day this week.I will pop this one in,go through all the steps again and see how it goes..

[rainman]

I feel for you having to pay a $75 service fee but the tech really didn't do anything for you except say you had a bad part which he never really proved it seems to me if he is going to install FTA as a business he should carry the parts to ba