ape

[APE]

Allright guys, here you go.......i'm also new to FTA. Sooooo..... take it easy on me. I'm into amateur radio, getting into HDTV DX, and much to
my wife's dismay........am adding FTA to the list!! Neat hobby guy's !!
Set up my first system this past weekend.... "M-3" system from Saudon.
Starting to get things lined up. I'm having a tracking problem to start
with. I'm at 89west....... according to the magnetic chart, there is little
or no compass deviation for my area. I got galaxy 28 at 89w locked in
dead on the square, so that pretty much locks me in for south setup on
the dish. I get a few satellites either way of me, but after that, nuthin!
I'm guessing the next free time out at the dish i need to play with motor
evelation and/or dish elevation ???

[wejones]

Originally Posted by APE

Allright guys, here you go.......i'm also new to FTA. Sooooo..... take it easy on me. I'm into amateur radio, getting into HDTV DX, and much to
my wife's dismay........am adding FTA to the list!! Neat hobby guy's !!
Set up my first system this past weekend.... "M-3" system from Saudon.
Starting to get things lined up. I'm having a tracking problem to start
with. I'm at 89west....... according to the magnetic chart, there is little
or no compass deviation for my area. I got galaxy 28 at 89w locked in
dead on the square, so that pretty much locks me in for south setup on
the dish. I get a few satellites either way of me, but after that, nuthin!
I'm guessing the next free time out at the dish i need to play with motor
evelation and/or dish elevation ???

You didn't say what you set your motor too, and what you adjusted to get the signal on the south sat, but if you did it properly, then you shouldn't have to touch the motor or dish elevations. Generally you tune in other sats by rotating the whole assembly on the pole VERY SLIGHTLY to fine tune your true south. (and just because you got the true south sat doesn't mean you have your mount aligned to true south)
But overall, we need to know what you have done already. Ie what motor? Important if it has both elevation and latitude scales, because some people put their latitude into the elevation scale, which isn't right. Did you use dish elevation or motor latitude setting to find G28? Generally you should set the motor latitude scale to your latitude plus 0.6 deg, then find the sat with the dish elevation. If you found the sat using the motor scale, then you will be off.

[APE]

See there, i've learned some tips already! Thanks. I have the DG240 motor, and the Fortec FS80P dish standard stuff in Saudon M-3 package.
I used the lattitude scale on the motor set a shade over 30 (my location
is 30.47) and set the dish elevation about the same. I'm curious about the
0.6 degree addition you mentioned ?? I did use the dish elevation to find
the sat and the motor is at 0 for this satellite.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by APE

See there, i've learned some tips already! Thanks. I have the DG240 motor, and the Fortec FS80P dish standard stuff in Saudon M-3 package.
I used the lattitude scale on the motor set a shade over 30 (my location
is 30.47) and set the dish elevation about the same. I'm curious about the
0.6 degree addition you mentioned ?? I did use the dish elevation to find
the sat and the motor is at 0 for this satellite.

OK. I think that the DG240 motor only has a latitude scale, not elevation, so you should be close. The 0.6 is because it is more accurate to use the declination of a sat to your east or western horizon, not a sat to your south. Sats to your east or west have a declination about 0.6 degrees less, so if you set your latitude scale on your latitude, and find the sat with your dish elevation it will set your system with the declination of a south satellite (which is what shows up in the Sadoun calculator, and many other charts). If you do this, you will be out of alignment by 0.6 degrees when you move to an eastern or western sat.
If, however you set your latitude scale to you latitude PLUS 0.6 degrees, then when you find that south sat, it will find the declination of a eastern or western satellite. Done this way, when you move to the east or west, you will be in alignment there since you'll have the proper declination and the motor elevation is pretty much orthogonal and unimportant at those extremes, and you will be in alignment for the south sats, because you just set the motor elevation to compensate for the declination error. Calculation of in between sats has shown that they will be within a few hundredths of a degree. See BJDISCALC2 for a calculator that shows the proper declination to use.
Anyway, you may be close enough already, although I would have used 31 instead of 30 for the latitude scale. I'd try rotating the whole assembly just very slightly on the pole. That may fix things.

[APE]

I'm lovin it.........thanks for the great advise. Went to the calculator link..
very neat....thanks also. Can i bug you again on an LNB question ?? I have
the Invacom quad with the 22khz switch. The paperwork with the LNB lists two different frequencies which are 10.75 and 11.25. Do i input both these frequencies into the setup on my Mercury II as 10750 low and 11250 high or do i simply leave it set at 10750 on all the input options??

[wejones]

Originally Posted by APE

...Can i bug you again on an LNB question ?? I have
the Invacom quad with the 22khz switch. The paperwork with the LNB lists two different frequencies which are 10.75 and 11.25. Do i input both these frequencies into the setup on my Mercury II as 10750 low and 11250 high or do i simply leave it set at 10750 on all the input options??

Use the 22khz switch to choose between a linear port and circular port on the lnbf. In the satellite setup for linear satellites, select the linear port, and use 10750 for the LO freq. When you set up a DBS satellite, select the circular port, and use 11250 as the LO freq. Ie the 10750 or 11250 depends on which port you are using on the lnbf.

[APE]

Thanks for your time and advice. Your tips have really helped out alot.
Now have things pretty close at the dish. Got G10R in last night. Still
tracking a little low on the outside edges but ....gettin there. Not super
happy with the signal quality running avg. 60% across.......little bigger
dish maybe? Anyway, thanks so much. Really neat stuff...i'm luvin it.

[elgemcdlf]

Dish is probably ok but bigger is always better In concept the dish setting determines the width / flatness of your arc and motor elevation sets the position in the sky. I realize this is simplistically stating things but perhaps raising or lowering the motor elevation a hair would help. You should be able to see roughly 55 to 60 degrees from center in both directions. If you can see that wide at this point it sounds to me like maybe motor elevation.

Run the dish out to the furthest west sat you can see (have signal from) now gently push up on the dish and then pull down. Did signal change with either move? If so note which direction raised signal. Now do the east sat. If they are opposite (up in the west and down in the east or whatever) you are not perfectly centered on true south. Move the entire assembly on the pole a very small amount in the direction of raised caused the increase.

If they are the same (both raised caused an increase) raise motor elevation a hair. If both down increased signal lower motor a hair. Keep working the system this way and you will find peak signal and a nice arc.

[APE]

You guy's are great. On the job training...sweet. Did do some elevation
experiments, in the rain,wrench in one hand,flashlight in the mouth, free
hand to move things around,standing on an 8' ladder....dish is on and 8'
pole. Was coming in low on 10R @ 123W and high @ east of me so moved
the whole assembly toward west. Arc seemed a little steep so dropped the
motor elevation a tad and found satellite again with dish elevation. Got it
close .... curious about my dish setting. With my motor (DG240) , shows
to use 35-(roughly 5deg declination for my lattitude), or approx. 30 deg.
But i'm real close with dish a little higher than this. I've read some of other
folks discussions about dish settings coming in other than published. Some
of the comments from you's guys are catching my attention, such as dish
elevation affecting width/flatness of arc. Just glad i'm receiving what i am
so far and only need to tweak things.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by APE

...... Was coming in low on 10R @ 123W and high @ east of me so moved
the whole assembly toward west. Arc seemed a little steep so dropped the
motor elevation a tad and found satellite again with dish elevation. Got it
close ...
.......
. curious about my dish setting. With my motor (DG240) , shows
to use 35-(roughly 5deg declination for my lattitude), or approx. 30 deg.
But i'm real close with dish a little higher than this. I've read some of other
folks discussions about dish settings coming in other than published. ....

Two things. I've found that adjusting motor or dish elevations on other than the due south sat, is likely to get you all messed up. It seems to have worked for you, but I think you're lucky.

Re the dish elevation, yeah, the scales on the motors seem accurate, but the scales on these little dishes don't seem very accurate. I think it's both because these dishes may be shipped with generic mounts that aren't necessarily made for the offset angel of your specific dish. That plus the fact that if your lnbf arm is even slightly bent or connected loosely, then the dish elevation angle will be altered. So yes, you can expect the dish elevation calculation to be just an approximation. You should set the motor angle to the proper angle, and leave it alone, then find your due south sat using only the dish elevation. Then find extreme sats rotating the whole assembly on the pole. However I find it's best to peak at the extreme position by bumping manually with the motor buttons after each adjustment. Ie don't just expect the rotation on the pole to bring in the sat.

[elgemcdlf]

Not sure what you mean by coming in low. If that means pushing the dish up helped signal then yes moving the entire assembly a slight bit to the west was correct. You now repeak your true south sat with dish elevation and try the end sats again. Continue this until pushing up and pulling down only causes a lowering of signal on both ends. The assembly is now perfectly centered on the arc. At this time you no longer need to move the assembly on the pole and will only work with motor and dish elevation.

Bill & I are in a bit of disagreement on how to accomplish dish alignment. My recommendation is use whichever makes the most sense to you BUT do not combine what I say with what he says. They are 2 different processes that in the end should arrive at the same point. In any case once you are centered it is a matter of getting the arc shaped correctly (dish elevation) and correct placement in the sky (motor elevation).

[APE]

Very good info. Thanks to you both. Part of the fun so far has been not only pulling in those sat's that i've gotten, but learning all the basics
of setup. Reading other setup conversations on this site has helped out
as well. Was watching PBS last night after scanning that sat. in but had
no audio so was checking all the paramaters in the receiver only to find
out that audio is passed by receiver and decoded elsewhere.....another
question answered. So thanks to everyone's info.... i'm learning. Do have
just a general question for you. If i am limited in locating my dish at my
location (89w), meaning that i can locate it to where i'm gonna be limited
in extreme east arc or extreme west arc, which direction and sat's do i
want to sacrifice ?? More good stuff far west or far east ??

[rainman]

Originally Posted by APE

Very good info. Thanks to you both. Part of the fun so far has been not only pulling in those sat's that i've gotten, but learning all the basics
of setup. Reading other setup conversations on this site has helped out
as well. Was watching PBS last night after scanning that sat. in but had
no audio so was checking all the paramaters in the receiver only to find
out that audio is passed by receiver and decoded elsewhere.....another
question answered. So thanks to everyone's info.... i'm learning. Do have
just a general question for you. If i am limited in locating my dish at my
location (89w), meaning that i can locate it to where i'm gonna be limited
in extreme east arc or extreme west arc, which direction and sat's do i
want to sacrifice ?? More good stuff far west or far east ??

shouldn't have to sacarfice any of the sats the dg240 should move far enough to catch both ends in your line of site once you get so low on the horizion the curvage of the earth takes over and will block you. so you should be able to see from 9 degrees west to 169 degrees west and line of site will stop your viewing before the motor will.

[APE]

My bad, i didn't give you the whole story. Tree's !! Lot's of em. I've got
my property developed finally the way i want it and the remaining tree's
have to stay there. So i'm afraid it's a sacrifice one way or the other.
I love my electronics, but i also love my tree's. Right now the dish can
see much further east. Oh hay!! Something else... it seems that there
are footage limitations in controlling those little motors with coax from
the receiver. What if i used a good quality say RG11/U coax, think i could
squeeze a little more distance out?? If i can get the thing further away
from the house, i might be able to give it a better view. At the freq's
used i'm thinking the RG6 is a little lossy and i might benefit from using
something a little better ?? Any input on that ???

[lumpkin666]

RG11 will help with signal loss a little. If you are having troubles powering your motor, you may look to see if there are any external power modifications that you can make. I have seen (not sure where anymore since I didn't end up needing the info) diagrams showing how to modify an SG2100 to accept power from an external source (i.e. an old laptop power supply fed by 110v to the pole)

[wejones]

Originally Posted by APE

My bad, i didn't give you the whole story. Tree's !! Lot's of em. I've got
my property developed finally the way i want it and the remaining tree's
have to stay there. So i'm afraid it's a sacrifice one way or the other.
I love my electronics, but i also love my tree's. Right now the dish can
see much further east. Oh hay!! Something else... it seems that there
are footage limitations in controlling those little motors with coax from
the receiver. What if i used a good quality say RG11/U coax, think i could
squeeze a little more distance out?? If i can get the thing further away
from the house, i might be able to give it a better view. At the freq's
used i'm thinking the RG6 is a little lossy and i might benefit from using
something a little better ?? Any input on that ???

Re trees.... yeah. I live in the woods. I cut a lot of trees for firewood, but don't like cutting trees that provide shade, and I don't cut maple trees, because they provide SYRUP. Oaks and pines are in danger though. But yeah, I hate to cut trees down too.
Re the "footage limitations", how long a run are you talking??? Up to 300', you shouldn't have any problems with signal using RG6, although DC voltage could be an issue. I have somewhere between 200 to 250' going to my 90CM/SG2100, and don't have any problems, and have a bit longer run going to my 10' dish.
Ie, I'm not sure what's best if DC voltage is an issue, perhaps something like Lumpkin suggested, although that sounds complicated. However unless you're talking more than 250', I don't think you'll have a problem.