HDTV FTA receiver

[Sadoun]

Are you interested in an HDTV FTA receiver?

What are some of the features you are looking for in an HDTV FTA DVB-S DVB-S2 receiver? and why?

Here are some of the features I would like:

Built-in ATSC tuner (to receive the local OTA Digital (DTV) channels)
4:2:2 capability (to receive the satellite FTA 4:2:2 channels)
USALS (of course)
HDMI output (to hookup to the HD TVs)
Component Output (just in case a TV does not have HDMI or DVI inputs)
.
.
.
.
You can add to the list

[fishej]

Firewire output
AC-3 optical output
DVR capability
A decent satellite/transponder/channel editor software for the PC
Blind scan

[Salukian]

YES! Ditto, especially Blind Scan!
I would buy.

[elgemcdlf]

I would be happy with a side box such as Motorola uses. This way one could keep their favorite receiver without sacraficing anything. The HD box could be manufactured for far less cost. Built in ATSC would be nice. Something that could potentially work with any DVB MPEG2 receiver or at least a popular group.

Cost of an HD box vs. available channels is what has kept me from buying one. The Digital Stream receiver would be an excellent start. Easy to use, nice looking software. Just add the ability to pipe in RF out of the receiver (sat) and away you go. I am kinda curious what would happen if I ran the rf out to the ant in of the DS box and tuned to a HD channel. Might find it doing a scan and make it watchable. Sounds like a cool experiment for tonight

[rainman]

yeah if they could make something like that Steve it would be great.let us know how your expeirment goes.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

I would be happy with a side box such as Motorola uses. This way one could keep their favorite receiver without sacraficing anything. The HD box could be manufactured for far less cost. Built in ATSC would be nice. Something that could potentially work with any DVB MPEG2 receiver or at least a popular group.

???? Considering that there aren't any outputs on any DVB MPEG2 receiver I've seen, that could go to an HD "side box", I'm not sure just what could be manufactured for less cost. The only output on a DVB receiver that you could use, is the passthru, and that is basically the same as the raw LNBF signal. Ie the only potential savings would be not needing a power supply or DiseqC 1.2 dish controls. The box would still have to be a complete standalone receiver. And if you are going to the trouble of making a complete receiver, then it would be shortsighted to not include the LNBF power and DiseqC capability.
What you are saying would make a lot of sense, if DVB receivers had an output providing the transport stream, but that isn't the case. All that is available is the signal from the LNBF.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

I am kinda curious what would happen if I ran the rf out to the ant in of the DS box and tuned to a HD channel. Might find it doing a scan and make it watchable. Sounds like a cool experiment for tonight

Since I assume that the tuning range of your DS box is in the regular OTA UHF band, and the range of the available signals on the sat receiver's passthru are in the 950-1450 range, besides the fact that the DS box is expecting 6 MHz wide channels, and they are in a different format, there shouldn't be anything there to see anyway.
Only chance I see of this even coming close to working, would be if you used a circular 11250 Ku. The signal from the LNBF would have the regular 11700-12200 linear band down in the 450-950 band, so some KU signals might then reside in the UHF band tuned by the DS box. However I really think it's next to impossible to get this to work. I don't think OTA ATSC really is compatable with DVB-s. I know that the PBS HD channel is technically in ATSC format, but I'm pretty sure it is encapsulated in a different format than the OTA signals. It is certainly a different bandwidth. The sat signal is about 15 MHz wide, while the OTA signals are 6 MHz wide.

[Iceberg]

damn I wish someone made a receiver that can do 4:2:2 and HD for under $700

Heck, if blind scan costs more to make, then don't. I can use my Coolsat to blind scan then input the info into the new box

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by wejones

???? Considering that there aren't any outputs on any DVB MPEG2 receiver I've seen, that could go to an HD "side box", I'm not sure just what could be manufactured for less cost. The only output on a DVB receiver that you could use, is the passthru, and that is basically the same as the raw LNBF signal. Ie the only potential savings would be not needing a power supply or DiseqC 1.2 dish controls. The box would still have to be a complete standalone receiver. And if you are going to the trouble of making a complete receiver, then it would be shortsighted to not include the LNBF power and DiseqC capability.
What you are saying would make a lot of sense, if DVB receivers had an output providing the transport stream, but that isn't the case. All that is available is the signal from the LNBF.



Since I assume that the tuning range of your DS box is in the regular OTA UHF band, and the range of the available signals on the sat receiver's passthru are in the 950-1450 range, besides the fact that the DS box is expecting 6 MHz wide channels, and they are in a different format, there shouldn't be anything there to see anyway.
Only chance I see of this even coming close to working, would be if you used a circular 11250 Ku. The signal from the LNBF would have the regular 11700-12200 linear band down in the 450-950 band, so some KU signals might then reside in the UHF band tuned by the DS box. However I really think it's next to impossible to get this to work. I don't think OTA ATSC really is compatable with DVB-s. I know that the PBS HD channel is technically in ATSC format, but I'm pretty sure it is encapsulated in a different format than the OTA signals. It is certainly a different bandwidth. The sat signal is about 15 MHz wide, while the OTA signals are 6 MHz wide.

As to the OTA I was thinking using RF out of the receiver not the loop. As to a side box I would think a software mod that would allow the pass to be VIA AV cables already in place or the optical output port. Simply upgrade software and your receiver now passes HD thru the AV ports. Future receivers would incorporate the actual port for HD pass thru.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

As to the OTA I was thinking using RF out of the receiver not the loop.

It occurred to me in the middle of the night that you MIGHT mean this, however the Ch3/4 RF output putting out an analog AM video signal with a separate FM analog audio signal, and what your OTA digital box is looking for is an FM digital signal containing both audio and video. Plus, I don't think that most SD DVB boxes are putting anything out when on a HD channel. I think that all my boxes do is give a blue screen. I'm not sure, but I think this is because the hardware just isn't capable of dealing with HD, so there just isn't any signal there to be modulated on the RF output anyway. But regardless, I really don't think that there is any chance that this would work.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

As to a side box I would think a software mod that would allow the pass to be VIA AV cables already in place or the optical output port. Simply upgrade software and your receiver now passes HD thru the AV ports. Future receivers would incorporate the actual port for HD pass thru.

I don't have enough knowledge to say for sure that this is or isn't possible, but I really think that if this were possible that one of the DVB boxes would already be doing it. My suspicion is that this is more than a software problem, ie that the video decoding is done by a hardware chip set which can't handle HD, and even if it is capable of doing HD, I think that the hardware after the decoding chip isn't going to be happy with HD, since it's all aimed at SD PAL or NTSC. I really think this just isn't going to work, but even if it COULD work, I don't see ANY motivation for the manufacturer of a DVB box to do the extensive software upgrade necessary to do this, when they are more interested in getting you to buy new models. If it were as simple as you suggest, they would have added an HD output in the first place and charged a bit more for the box. I think there is a reason why HD receivers cost more, and I think it comes down to the choices they have made for chips that do hardware decoding and licensing for codecs, etc.
But that's just my opinion which isn't based on any hard knowledge of the chips involved, so I may well be wrong.

[elgemcdlf]

Motivation could be directly tied to available HD channels which are quite limited at this time. As to any chipsets they would reside in the HD side box. Along with anything else required for HD specific to HD. The motivation for software upgrade would be maintaining customer base. Knowing they could sell far more boxes at $150.00 than $650.00 it makes logical sense to me to convert current units with future units having a pass through port. It would also be an excellent testing ground for the concept with minimal investment on the part of the receiver manufacturer.

[boz]

I'm probably behind the times, but I saw some spam on the Yahoo TVRO mailing list about this Coolsat 8000HD receiver. Claims to supports MPEG2 and MPEG4, HDMI output, terrestrial ATSC reception. There's 3 or 4 of them on Ebay starting at about $400-$500.

I'm a little suspicious that it might be a standard FTA receiver grafted onto an ATSC receiver with no satellite HD reception.

Anybody have one on the way to review?

[be236]

These new HD FTA receivers coming out starting this year .. Jan 2007... are REAL!

Note the realistic price ... $400-$500... that's no joke... I dont see why the HD technology is so expensive...

OH, well, maybe once these units get into mass production later in mid-to-end of year 2007, then the price can come down to something more reasonable to a high-end regular SD FTA unit.... say $250-$300... then I would be ready to buy one. heheheh....

[rainman]

Originally Posted by boz

I'm probably behind the times, but I saw some spam on the Yahoo TVRO mailing list about this Coolsat 8000HD receiver. Claims to supports MPEG2 and MPEG4, HDMI output, terrestrial ATSC reception. There's 3 or 4 of them on Ebay starting at about $400-$500.

I'm a little suspicious that it might be a standard FTA receiver grafted onto an ATSC receiver with no satellite HD reception.

Anybody have one on the way to review?

what I have read thats exactly what it is.

[be236]

Darn.. I thought it would have been real HD FTA reception...

Well, more rumours... but I heard that SonicView was getting ready for an HD FTA receiver this month... d'oh.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by be236

Darn.. I thought it would have been real HD FTA reception...

Well, more rumours... but I heard that SonicView was getting ready for an HD FTA receiver this month... d'oh.

I think the pansat 7000 suppose to be HD wait and see I guest.