HDTV FTA receiver

[Sadoun]

Are you interested in an HDTV FTA receiver?

What are some of the features you are looking for in an HDTV FTA DVB-S DVB-S2 receiver? and why?

Here are some of the features I would like:

Built-in ATSC tuner (to receive the local OTA Digital (DTV) channels)
4:2:2 capability (to receive the satellite FTA 4:2:2 channels)
USALS (of course)
HDMI output (to hookup to the HD TVs)
Component Output (just in case a TV does not have HDMI or DVI inputs)
.
.
.
.
You can add to the list

[fishej]

Firewire output
AC-3 optical output
DVR capability
A decent satellite/transponder/channel editor software for the PC
Blind scan

[Salukian]

YES! Ditto, especially Blind Scan!
I would buy.

[elgemcdlf]

I would be happy with a side box such as Motorola uses. This way one could keep their favorite receiver without sacraficing anything. The HD box could be manufactured for far less cost. Built in ATSC would be nice. Something that could potentially work with any DVB MPEG2 receiver or at least a popular group.

Cost of an HD box vs. available channels is what has kept me from buying one. The Digital Stream receiver would be an excellent start. Easy to use, nice looking software. Just add the ability to pipe in RF out of the receiver (sat) and away you go. I am kinda curious what would happen if I ran the rf out to the ant in of the DS box and tuned to a HD channel. Might find it doing a scan and make it watchable. Sounds like a cool experiment for tonight

[rainman]

yeah if they could make something like that Steve it would be great.let us know how your expeirment goes.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

I would be happy with a side box such as Motorola uses. This way one could keep their favorite receiver without sacraficing anything. The HD box could be manufactured for far less cost. Built in ATSC would be nice. Something that could potentially work with any DVB MPEG2 receiver or at least a popular group.

???? Considering that there aren't any outputs on any DVB MPEG2 receiver I've seen, that could go to an HD "side box", I'm not sure just what could be manufactured for less cost. The only output on a DVB receiver that you could use, is the passthru, and that is basically the same as the raw LNBF signal. Ie the only potential savings would be not needing a power supply or DiseqC 1.2 dish controls. The box would still have to be a complete standalone receiver. And if you are going to the trouble of making a complete receiver, then it would be shortsighted to not include the LNBF power and DiseqC capability.
What you are saying would make a lot of sense, if DVB receivers had an output providing the transport stream, but that isn't the case. All that is available is the signal from the LNBF.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

I am kinda curious what would happen if I ran the rf out to the ant in of the DS box and tuned to a HD channel. Might find it doing a scan and make it watchable. Sounds like a cool experiment for tonight

Since I assume that the tuning range of your DS box is in the regular OTA UHF band, and the range of the available signals on the sat receiver's passthru are in the 950-1450 range, besides the fact that the DS box is expecting 6 MHz wide channels, and they are in a different format, there shouldn't be anything there to see anyway.
Only chance I see of this even coming close to working, would be if you used a circular 11250 Ku. The signal from the LNBF would have the regular 11700-12200 linear band down in the 450-950 band, so some KU signals might then reside in the UHF band tuned by the DS box. However I really think it's next to impossible to get this to work. I don't think OTA ATSC really is compatable with DVB-s. I know that the PBS HD channel is technically in ATSC format, but I'm pretty sure it is encapsulated in a different format than the OTA signals. It is certainly a different bandwidth. The sat signal is about 15 MHz wide, while the OTA signals are 6 MHz wide.

[Iceberg]

damn I wish someone made a receiver that can do 4:2:2 and HD for under $700

Heck, if blind scan costs more to make, then don't. I can use my Coolsat to blind scan then input the info into the new box

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by wejones

???? Considering that there aren't any outputs on any DVB MPEG2 receiver I've seen, that could go to an HD "side box", I'm not sure just what could be manufactured for less cost. The only output on a DVB receiver that you could use, is the passthru, and that is basically the same as the raw LNBF signal. Ie the only potential savings would be not needing a power supply or DiseqC 1.2 dish controls. The box would still have to be a complete standalone receiver. And if you are going to the trouble of making a complete receiver, then it would be shortsighted to not include the LNBF power and DiseqC capability.
What you are saying would make a lot of sense, if DVB receivers had an output providing the transport stream, but that isn't the case. All that is available is the signal from the LNBF.



Since I assume that the tuning range of your DS box is in the regular OTA UHF band, and the range of the available signals on the sat receiver's passthru are in the 950-1450 range, besides the fact that the DS box is expecting 6 MHz wide channels, and they are in a different format, there shouldn't be anything there to see anyway.
Only chance I see of this even coming close to working, would be if you used a circular 11250 Ku. The signal from the LNBF would have the regular 11700-12200 linear band down in the 450-950 band, so some KU signals might then reside in the UHF band tuned by the DS box. However I really think it's next to impossible to get this to work. I don't think OTA ATSC really is compatable with DVB-s. I know that the PBS HD channel is technically in ATSC format, but I'm pretty sure it is encapsulated in a different format than the OTA signals. It is certainly a different bandwidth. The sat signal is about 15 MHz wide, while the OTA signals are 6 MHz wide.

As to the OTA I was thinking using RF out of the receiver not the loop. As to a side box I would think a software mod that would allow the pass to be VIA AV cables already in place or the optical output port. Simply upgrade software and your receiver now passes HD thru the AV ports. Future receivers would incorporate the actual port for HD pass thru.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

As to the OTA I was thinking using RF out of the receiver not the loop.

It occurred to me in the middle of the night that you MIGHT mean this, however the Ch3/4 RF output putting out an analog AM video signal with a separate FM analog audio signal, and what your OTA digital box is looking for is an FM digital signal containing both audio and video. Plus, I don't think that most SD DVB boxes are putting anything out when on a HD channel. I think that all my boxes do is give a blue screen. I'm not sure, but I think this is because the hardware just isn't capable of dealing with HD, so there just isn't any signal there to be modulated on the RF output anyway. But regardless, I really don't think that there is any chance that this would work.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

As to a side box I would think a software mod that would allow the pass to be VIA AV cables already in place or the optical output port. Simply upgrade software and your receiver now passes HD thru the AV ports. Future receivers would incorporate the actual port for HD pass thru.

I don't have enough knowledge to say for sure that this is or isn't possible, but I really think that if this were possible that one of the DVB boxes would already be doing it. My suspicion is that this is more than a software problem, ie that the video decoding is done by a hardware chip set which can't handle HD, and even if it is capable of doing HD, I think that the hardware after the decoding chip isn't going to be happy with HD, since it's all aimed at SD PAL or NTSC. I really think this just isn't going to work, but even if it COULD work, I don't see ANY motivation for the manufacturer of a DVB box to do the extensive software upgrade necessary to do this, when they are more interested in getting you to buy new models. If it were as simple as you suggest, they would have added an HD output in the first place and charged a bit more for the box. I think there is a reason why HD receivers cost more, and I think it comes down to the choices they have made for chips that do hardware decoding and licensing for codecs, etc.
But that's just my opinion which isn't based on any hard knowledge of the chips involved, so I may well be wrong.

[elgemcdlf]

Motivation could be directly tied to available HD channels which are quite limited at this time. As to any chipsets they would reside in the HD side box. Along with anything else required for HD specific to HD. The motivation for software upgrade would be maintaining customer base. Knowing they could sell far more boxes at $150.00 than $650.00 it makes logical sense to me to convert current units with future units having a pass through port. It would also be an excellent testing ground for the concept with minimal investment on the part of the receiver manufacturer.

[boz]

I'm probably behind the times, but I saw some spam on the Yahoo TVRO mailing list about this Coolsat 8000HD receiver. Claims to supports MPEG2 and MPEG4, HDMI output, terrestrial ATSC reception. There's 3 or 4 of them on Ebay starting at about $400-$500.

I'm a little suspicious that it might be a standard FTA receiver grafted onto an ATSC receiver with no satellite HD reception.

Anybody have one on the way to review?

[be236]

These new HD FTA receivers coming out starting this year .. Jan 2007... are REAL!

Note the realistic price ... $400-$500... that's no joke... I dont see why the HD technology is so expensive...

OH, well, maybe once these units get into mass production later in mid-to-end of year 2007, then the price can come down to something more reasonable to a high-end regular SD FTA unit.... say $250-$300... then I would be ready to buy one. heheheh....

[rainman]

Originally Posted by boz

I'm probably behind the times, but I saw some spam on the Yahoo TVRO mailing list about this Coolsat 8000HD receiver. Claims to supports MPEG2 and MPEG4, HDMI output, terrestrial ATSC reception. There's 3 or 4 of them on Ebay starting at about $400-$500.

I'm a little suspicious that it might be a standard FTA receiver grafted onto an ATSC receiver with no satellite HD reception.

Anybody have one on the way to review?

what I have read thats exactly what it is.

[be236]

Darn.. I thought it would have been real HD FTA reception...

Well, more rumours... but I heard that SonicView was getting ready for an HD FTA receiver this month... d'oh.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by be236

Darn.. I thought it would have been real HD FTA reception...

Well, more rumours... but I heard that SonicView was getting ready for an HD FTA receiver this month... d'oh.

I think the pansat 7000 suppose to be HD wait and see I guest.

[be236]

Yeah, but are there any HD FTA channels currently or even in the future?

[rainman]

Originally Posted by be236

Yeah, but are there any HD FTA channels currently or even in the future?

yes there are a few FTA HD channels.

[be236]

That's cool.. I guess I'm not in a hurry to get HD since my TV is just regular TV and the picture with SD looks pretty clear/good to me..

I've gone to stores and looked at their HD pictures and it's very clear, but still nothing earth-shattering compared to my regular SD TV. heh.

So until I'm forced to buy a new HDTV (2009 govt mandate of OTA HD broadcast).. I'll stick with my regular FTA receiver.. by then (later this year or next year), HD prices should REALLY come down and more and more HD channels will show up. heheh..

[rainman]

Originally Posted by be236

That's cool.. I guess I'm not in a hurry to get HD since my TV is just regular TV and the picture with SD looks pretty clear/good to me..

I've gone to stores and looked at their HD pictures and it's very clear, but still nothing earth-shattering compared to my regular SD TV. heh.

So until I'm forced to buy a new HDTV (2009 govt mandate of OTA HD broadcast).. I'll stick with my regular FTA receiver.. by then (later this year or next year), HD prices should REALLY come down and more and more HD channels will show up. heheh..

I agree have'nt seen anything that earth shattering on hd myself the only reason i would get one is to pull in that channel to watch. never enough channels.LOL

[wejones]

Originally Posted by be236

....
So until I'm forced to buy a new HDTV (2009 govt mandate of OTA HD broadcast).. I'll stick with my regular FTA receiver.. ...

? I thought that the government mandate was for OTA digital, not OTA HD, or are there two deadlines? When the OTA digital started around here, one of the 3 networks had ONLY HD, one had HD and SD, and the third network had HD,SD, and a weather channel. Now, none of the 3 networks has a SD feed. The NBC channel just has HD and weather, and the CBS feed just has HD and some music channel, TUBE or something. The ABC just has HD and nothing else. I wonder if once they are forced to drop analog if they will then include a SD channel again, or just do HD only??? Seems like there will still be a lot of people only with SD TVs, and they won't be happy if they are forced to watch HD on a SD TV.

[be236]

ok, maybe I got confused.. I just thought HD and digital came "together as a package." heh...

In my area many of my local TV stations keep advertising they are broadcasting in HD...

Is it possible to broadcast in HD with analog signal?

I am guessing that a broadcast will just broadcast in HD and digital.. in either case (HD or digital), my old TV of the late 1990s wont pick it up.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by be236

ok, maybe I got confused.. I just thought HD and digital came "together as a package." heh...

In my area many of my local TV stations keep advertising they are broadcasting in HD...

Is it possible to broadcast in HD with analog signal?

I am guessing that a broadcast will just broadcast in HD and digital.. in either case (HD or digital), my old TV of the late 1990s wont pick it up.

with FTA channels that broad cast in HD you can't receive them with a standard receiver need a receiver that does 4.2.2.as for analog don't know if they can broadcast HD or not.

[be236]

Yes, I already know you need HD FTA receiver to get HD FTA signals... Dont know about that 4.2.2 stuff though...

As for HD and digital, I always thought they go hand-in-hand... I mean I dont think you could (or want to) broadcast HD over analog OTA or if you could broadcast SD over digital (well maybe you can, but why?)....

In either case, when it's time to watch HD, just get HDTV and all will be good (and HD FTA receiver when the price comes down.hehe)>\

[rainman]

Originally Posted by be236

Yes, I already know you need HD FTA receiver to get HD FTA signals... Dont know about that 4.2.2 stuff though...

As for HD and digital, I always thought they go hand-in-hand... I mean I dont think you could (or want to) broadcast HD over analog OTA or if you could broadcast SD over digital (well maybe you can, but why?)....

In either case, when it's time to watch HD, just get HDTV and all will be good (and HD FTA receiver when the price comes down.hehe)>\

yep agreed the price will have to come down just as soon as all the manufactures get on the band wagon nothing like competition to bring down prices.

[be236]

Yeah, but even if I picked up an HD channel and feed that into my regular analog SD TV, I dont think the picture will be any clearer than it is now using S-VIDEO. Watching many of the regular SD FTA channels via SVIDEO connector to my old 1997 TV looks crystal clear! heh.... so really, I would not notice any big difference until I get a new HDTV set itself as well.... d'oh.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by be236

ok, maybe I got confused.. I just thought HD and digital came "together as a package." heh...

HD is the resolution. Digital vs analog are just how they get the signal to you.

Originally Posted by be236

In my area many of my local TV stations keep advertising they are broadcasting in HD...

I'm pretty sure that the government mandate was for the stations to go digital, mainly to conserve bandwidth. The stations are using this as a way to switch to HD, which they couldn't do otherwise.

Originally Posted by be236

Is it possible to broadcast in HD with analog signal?

Yes, but it would take more bandwidth, which they don't have. Right now, the "channels" allocated to TV stations are about 6 MHz wide, and that is just enough to fit a SD signal into. In order to transmit HD in analog, the channels would have to be much wider. However, with digital, they can squeeze a HD channel and a couple SD channels into the same bandwidth.

Originally Posted by be236

I am guessing that a broadcast will just broadcast in HD and digital.. in either case (HD or digital), my old TV of the late 1990s wont pick it up.

Well the idea was supposed to be to force stations to switch to digital, but still allow people to use their old TVs via the purchase of a set top digital tuner. Like right now, I have an OTA digital tuner in my computer, and I can send the signal to my old SD TV. I can watch both the HD and SD channels on my TV, however the HD picture has the 16x9 aspect ratio squeezed into my 4x3 (or whatever it is) SD TV, so all the people look tall and skinny. I've gotten used to it for the most part, except that watching NFL football looks weird, as you don't expect to see skinny linemen.

[StevenS]

Built-in DVR (dual tuner)
Positive I.D. on satellite
HD only favorites menu
external Hardrive link to expand hardrive