Add FTA Satellite Receiver

[1881-A]

Ok!, here goes. I have a C-band (big ugly dish) since 1978, and added a 4DTV DSR922 unit. I have only C-band (no Ku yet) and have subscribed to digital programming. I want to add a DVB-MPEG receiver with HD, so I can be ready for it coming this year. I've been reading it may be best to get a DVB-MPEG-2 with HD, and not get the older version, and have to switch later.

What are my choices on the best receiver, and how do I proceed? Would it be to my advantage to install a 6' or 8" dish separate with the DVB receiver, or can I use the DVB unit with my old 10' back yard dish? If I do, I would go with the motorized route, so I can pick up more than one satellite.

Thanks for the information.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by 1881-A

Ok!, here goes. I have a C-band (big ugly dish) since 1978, and added a 4DTV DSR922 unit. I have only C-band (no Ku yet) and have subscribed to digital programming. I want to add a DVB-MPEG receiver with HD, so I can be ready for it coming this year. I've been reading it may be best to get a DVB-MPEG-2 with HD, and not get the older version, and have to switch later.

What are my choices on the best receiver, and how do I proceed? Would it be to my advantage to install a 6' or 8" dish separate with the DVB receiver, or can I use the DVB unit with my old 10' back yard dish? If I do, I would go with the motorized route, so I can pick up more than one satellite.

Thanks for the information.

To my knowledge there are no HD receivers out there yet. There was one but it has since ceased production. So you are in the same boat on that respect as the rest of us, waiting. As to use with the current dish. There is no problem with slaving a DVB receiver to the 922 but until you upgrade the feedhorn and add Ku you will be missing out on quite a bit of the DVB programming out there. Kinda depends on what you are interested in.

Now an alternative is to go with a motorized Ku dish (driven by the DVB receiver with a standard lnbf (universals do not play well with the 922) and use the small dish for Ku on the DVB receiver and 922 using the DVB receiver to move the small dish and the large dish for C Band controlled by the 922 with the DVB receiver slaved to it. So you would get both C & Ku on both receivers.

HD is very limited on offerings at this point. No real need to buy into the hype of DN or DTV for HD. I have seen it and am not impressed. I have better PQ out of the 922 running through an analog tv. Might want to look into a HD add on for the 922. To my knowledge about all that is offered at this time is movies.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by 1881-A

Ok!, here goes. I have a C-band (big ugly dish) since 1978, and added a 4DTV DSR922 unit. I have only C-band (no Ku yet) and have subscribed to digital programming. I want to add a DVB-MPEG receiver with HD, so I can be ready for it coming this year. I've been reading it may be best to get a DVB-MPEG-2 with HD, and not get the older version, and have to switch later.

What are my choices on the best receiver, and how do I proceed? Would it be to my advantage to install a 6' or 8" dish separate with the DVB receiver, or can I use the DVB unit with my old 10' back yard dish? If I do, I would go with the motorized route, so I can pick up more than one satellite.

Thanks for the information.

I don't understand the " I want to add a DVB-MPEG receiver with HD, so I can be ready for it coming this year." sentence. What are you talking about that is "coming this year"?

But on to your question, it is pretty easy to slave any DVB receiver to your big dish, just by adding a "T" to the coax, with a DC-block on the coax that goes to the DVB receiver (or get a "T" that only passes DC on one port). I think you are better off using your existing dish. The "T" will reduce your signal a bit, but not enough to cause any problems. You'll have to move the dish, and control polarity with your 4DTV.

Re HD, since Sadoun only sells Fortec, and Fortec hasn't released their North American HD receiver yet, you'll probably need to go elsewhere. There are several other receiver brands that sell HD receivers. I'm not sure which is best. Besides a set top box HD receiver, another option is to get a PCI computer card type receiver. The only problem is that you need a VERY fast computer to view the HD video on the computer, or to play directly to a TV via your computer's video card outputs (if it has them).

I have a Twinhan 1020a PCI card receiver, which Sadoun used to sell, but they don't anymore. I think it has been discontinued, but for some reason Sadoun doesn't sell the cards that replaced it anymore either. I have it in a 2GHz computer, which can only display low bitrate HD without it breaking up. You really need a 3 GHz or faster computer. But I stream the raw digital stream over my LAN to a box called a Roku HD1000, which does a very nice job with even relatively high bitrate HD. Unfortunately, the Roku box isn't being made anymore, so that option is going away. I keep hoping that Fortec will come out with their version of a HD STB, but actually using the Twinhan/Roku thing has more capability than a STB does.
What I do is stream the raw digital data to a box
There is a fair amount of HD on C-band right now, but it may not be there for long, since much of this stuff could change at any time to 8PSK that consumer receivers can't receive. So you better get your HD capability quick, but that's also a reason to perhaps not invest too much, which is why I like the PCI card option, as they are very cheap.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

To my knowledge there are no HD receivers out there yet. There was one but it has since ceased production.

If you go over to the satforums forum, they've been discussing 3 or 4 different receivers, which all seem to work OK on regular HD. Some of these receivers seem to be a bit buggy. I'm kind of waiting to see which one is best before investing in one myself.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

As to use with the current dish. There is no problem with slaving a DVB receiver to the 922 but until you upgrade the feedhorn and add Ku you will be missing out on quite a bit of the DVB programming out there. Kinda depends on what you are interested in.

I agree, relative to standard def stuff, but most of the HD (except for PBS), is on C-band.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

HD is very limited on offerings at this point. No real need to buy into the hype of DN or DTV for HD. ....

There is a good deal of DVB HD on C-band, at least now anyway. The quality depends on how much they compress it, which is why as you say, the DN/DTV stuff isn't that impressive. But most of the stuff I've seen is excellent quality. It's better than what I receive OTA ATSC, which in turn is better than the DN/DTV stuff. I don't have DCII HD capability, so I can't compare it to that, but in theory it should again depend upon how much they try to squeeze channels into a limited bandwidth, so the DCII stuff should be similar in quality to the DVB stuff. However the difference is in the type of channels. The HD stuff on DCII is mostly cable type channels, while the DVB HD stuff is some network stuff, PBS, NASA, and occasional video type things {which is often the qood stuff}. So yes, it's limited, but like you said, it depends on what you like to watch.

[1881-A]

This morning while watching KUSA-9 NBC Denver (which I pay dearly to get on my DSR922), the news anchors was discussing the up coming new format on HD digital programming in Feb. 2009. Whereas, all analog TV would be phased out. They mentioned the new FTA MPEG HD receivers would be able to view all HD channels/stations without any paid subscription. Ar least that was my take of what they were telling.

So, I've taken the time today to search on the internet all about DVB-MPEG-2 receivers, and how I can watch a lot of channels on FTA receivers. That was the basic of my questions on who has the best units, and...where, what, why, and when to move towards buying one of these receivers.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by 1881-A

This morning while watching KUSA-9 NBC Denver (which I pay dearly to get on my DSR922), the news anchors was discussing the up coming new format on HD digital programming in Feb. 2009. Whereas, all analog TV would be phased out. They mentioned the new FTA MPEG HD receivers would be able to view all HD channels/stations without any paid subscription. Ar least that was my take of what they were telling.

So, I've taken the time today to search on the internet all about DVB-MPEG-2 receivers, and how I can watch a lot of channels on FTA receivers. That was the basic of my questions on who has the best units, and...where, what, why, and when to move towards buying one of these receivers.

I think that what you heard on that program was extremely misleading, and mostly wrong.
The phasing out thing is for over the air (OTA) analog stations, and they are being replaced by ATSC digital, which is similar to FTA mpeg sat receivers, but what they were talking about wasn't satellite FTA, but they're talking about over the air digital coming from your local stations. There is no forced phaseout of any kind for satellite, however it is phasing out on it's own. Also the forced phaseout doesn't ever mention HD, it's only an analog to digital conversion, not analog to HD. So the program you saw was very misleading.
However, in most places, there is no need to wait. If you want to receive OTA ATSC digital. Most places the stations are transmitting both analog and digital, and you can get an ATSC tuner to receive it now. What they are talking about is not the same thing as DVB FTA . The ATSC over the air stuff is pretty much guaranteed to be free, but it will just be your local stations, plus most channels are including a few other public service channels, like weather channels, etc.
On satellite, you won't find free local channels, but you will find SOME network stuff. If you want movies, you'll probably have to either subscribe to DTV, dishnet or get an HD adapter for your 4DTV, but it won't be free either. The DVB FTA HD stuff usually isn't movie type channels, although sometimes it is, and there is no guarantee that what you see there today will be there tomorrow.

[1881-A]

This must have been what the news anchors were talking about... This came from 9NEWS - Home Page. The Denver NBC station.

Will consumers have to pay to receive HDTV broadcasts?
No. Unlike digital cable where consumers pay monthly fees for services, HDTV provides high quality programming and more content via free over-the-air broadcasts.

What about my existing analog TV?
Until the total conversion to HDTV is made, broadcasters will generally simulcast the same programs on two different channels - one in a digital format and one in analog. Viewers with analog sets will be able to convert a digital signal to an analog signal by hooking up a digital tuner decoder box to their sets; however, they will not be able to experience the crystal clear pictures and sound quality that a HDTV set provides, nor will they experience the advantages of datacasting or interactive television.

[1881-A]

elgemcdif...

I understand your suggestion very well, however, I actually wanted to install a Chaparral Cornotor II feedhorn on the BUD This is the LNB with a C-band and Ku LNB attached to the BUD. I will run a cable from the C-band LNB to a Splitter, and a cable from the Ku-band LNB to another splitter. From each splitter (C-band and Ku), I run a cable to the the DSR922, and from each splitter, I run a cable to a DiSEqC switch, and from the switch a cable to the DVB receiver. With this setup, I can get all my scrambled channels on the DSR922, and all the FTA channels on the DVB-MPEG-2 receiver. I think this will work..
Would this be correct?

[rainman]

Originally Posted by 1881-A

elgemcdif...

I understand your suggestion very well, however, I actually wanted to install a Chaparral Cornotor II feedhorn on the BUD This is the LNB with a C-band and Ku LNB attached to the BUD. I will run a cable from the C-band LNB to a Splitter, and a cable from the Ku-band LNB to another splitter. From each splitter (C-band and Ku), I run a cable to the the DSR922, and from each splitter, I run a cable to a DiSEqC switch, and from the switch a cable to the DVB receiver. With this setup, I can get all my scrambled channels on the DSR922, and all the FTA channels on the DVB-MPEG-2 receiver. I think this will work..
Would this be correct?

Thats the way mine is setup and it works just fine. remember you will have to use the 922 to control polarity and sat position.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by 1881-A

This must have been what the news anchors were talking about... This came from 9NEWS - Home Page. The Denver NBC station.

Will consumers have to pay to receive HDTV broadcasts?
No. Unlike digital cable where consumers pay monthly fees for services, HDTV provides high quality programming and more content via free over-the-air broadcasts.

What about my existing analog TV?
Until the total conversion to HDTV is made, broadcasters will generally simulcast the same programs on two different channels - one in a digital format and one in analog. Viewers with analog sets will be able to convert a digital signal to an analog signal by hooking up a digital tuner decoder box to their sets; however, they will not be able to experience the crystal clear pictures and sound quality that a HDTV set provides, nor will they experience the advantages of datacasting or interactive television.

I think I kinda see what is happening here. From what I have found the stations are broadcasting in HD and SD. Both are digital and both are free along with being mixed together. I think local stations just jumped straight from going digital to HD/SD which may be why they are using the HD reference. But as Bill stated what they are saying is what he stated. Analog OTA is leaving by federal mandate and being replaced with digital OTA. If you have a digital tuner in your current television you need nothing and will not be affected. If you have an analog tv you will need a converter box or a new tv. If your tv does not have a tuner built in (monitor) you will still need some form of tuner.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

I think I kinda see what is happening here. From what I have found the stations are broadcasting in HD and SD. Both are digital and both are free along with being mixed together. I think local stations just jumped straight from going digital to HD/SD which may be why they are using the HD reference. But as Bill stated what they are saying is what he stated. Analog OTA is leaving by federal mandate and being replaced with digital OTA. If you have a digital tuner in your current television you need nothing and will not be affected. If you have an analog tv you will need a converter box or a new tv. If your tv does not have a tuner built in (monitor) you will still need some form of tuner.

Right. Eventually, I think everything will be HD, but for a while at least they'll have different options, like having both SD and HD... where I live, it seems they aren't quite sure what to do yet. I only get 4 OTA digital stations, NBC, ABC, CBS, and one of those 2nd tier networks (can't remember what it is... wish it was PBS or the CW, but it isn't). At first, the local CBS channel did what you say, ie a HD version and a SD version, but the local NBC channel put up a weather channel in the "extra space", and the local ABC channel only had the HD version. The extra space thing is important, because they can get more space by compressing the main HD signal. When the local ABC channel was just HD, it was the best quality of the three, however now they've decided to put in a weather channel too, and I've noticed quality problems with their signal since they've done that. I've read posts from people in other areas where they say that the stations squeeze all sorts of little channels into their bandwidth, to the extent that the main HD channel is very poor quality. I hope my locals don't do that. So far the quality is pretty good.... not as good as the satellite network HD feeds, but pretty good.
The interesting thing in my area though, is that the local channels don't seem to have ANY HD equipment for the local programming. Ie prime time stuff (and soap operas) that they get from the network are HD, but all the local stuff, news, and local programs, are in SD, as I guess that they aren't rushing into buying new cameras, etc.
But the most surprising thing, is that they apparently don't have any equipment that can put chyron information on an HD screen. Ie when watching a HD football game, the local channel needed to put some text on the screen, either station ID info or info about a snow storm that was hitting the area, etc. Every time they did this, they had to switch from HD to SD, and put the text on the SD screen. Really gave you a good view of the difference between HD and SD, but I thought it was interesting that all these local stations, who have an investment in all sorts of SD equipment are now in a quandry because this equipment isn't compatable with HD, and they probably don't have the money to just replace everything at once. So it's going to be a while before most of the small market TV stations go completely HD. In the meantime, there will probably be a LOT of CHEAP SD broadcast equipment up for sale by the stations that ARE making the investment. I wish I knew more about this stuff so I could look out for it on ebay, because there are probably a lot of very nice satellite receivers that these stations will be getting rid of, that would still be very useful for hobbiests.

[Muad'Dib]

Fortecstar Passion HD is not released in NA yet???


BW, who wants to rely on "mpeg2 HD", that is obsolete.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

Fortecstar Passion HD is not released in NA yet???


BW, who wants to rely on "mpeg2 HD", that is obsolete.

The only info I can find on purchase of the receiver is in Europe @ just over $400.00 USD plus shipping of course. I hold my course. For that kind of money I think a receiver that has sub ability is a better choice. Nothing against the Fortec offering and I understand they can not be produced for free but with no subs available in the US and the receiver itself is not capable of subs even if they were. Look to the DSR offerings and you have an excellent receiver with complete sub ability along with being able to add on HD capability.

The main reason I do/will not invest a great deal of money into a FTA receiver is FTA. No promises any of the channels will be here tomorrow. I enjoy every channel I get but reality is they all could disappear today while I am at work. I guess that is true of everything but with the DSR series receivers there is an industry built around them for programming. With the FTA receivers they are built around the programming industry.