Can't peak my new Orasat 1 meter dish

[SkyPilot]

Hi,

I have a Fortec 80cm dish on a GeoSatPro 120 motor which was working well, but some of the weaker sats like 123W, which is my True South sat, didn't come in all that well.

I recently traded some old FTA stuff I had sitting around for a brand new 1 meter Orasat dish.

Before I installed it, I moved my Fortec dish to True South, which again is sat 123W, using my motor and made sure I was getting a signal. I then turned off and unplugged my CW Premium box and went outside and got busy.

With the motor pointing the dish True South, I removed the old Fortec dish and Invacom Quad, and replaced it with the Orasat 1 meter and swapped the Invacom LNB to the new ORasat dish.

I also had an old TV outside and connected it to the the dish/motor and...nothing.

Well, I got some Quality, but no Strength.

Move the dish side to side, up and down.

Nothing.

Tried different TP's.

Nothing.

Moved the motor/dish assembly over a few degrees to 119, strictly for testing purposes, as that bird is much stronger than 123W

Nothing.

I also tried bypassing the motor and diseqc switch so it was just 25' of RG6 connected from the Invacom to the STB and tried moving the dish up and down, side to side and still, nothing.

I realize that the offset for the Orasat is probably different than the Fortec, but can't find any specs for it online.

Any suggestions?

I'm going to try again tomorrow at 1:11 PM, when the Sun is at True South, but I think the up and down angle is the issue and the Orasat dish has a lousy setup when it comes to this adjustment.

Thanks.

BTW, here is an easy way to find True South. Just be sure to add 1 hour during Daylight Savings Time:
Sun or Moon Altitude/Azimuth Table

[bill190]

Well I don't know how you can be expected to be able to aim a dish without knowing the dish offset! (And being able to use an inclinometer and subtracting the offset to get it pointing the correct elevation.)

I would contact the store you purchased this dish from and request the manufacturer's specifications for the dish or the manufacturer's web site or contact information.

Then if you installed a new LNB, again you need to know the specifications of the LNB so you can enter the correct settings in your receiver. LNB's are different!

[wejones]

Originally Posted by SkyPilot

Hi,

I have a Fortec 80cm dish on a GeoSatPro 120 motor which was working well, but some of the weaker sats like 123W, which is my True South sat, didn't come in all that well.

I recently traded some old FTA stuff I had sitting around for a brand new 1 meter Orasat dish.

Before I installed it, I moved my Fortec dish to True South, which again is sat 123W, using my motor and made sure I was getting a signal. I then turned off and unplugged my CW Premium box and went outside and got busy.

With the motor pointing the dish True South, I removed the old Fortec dish and Invacom Quad, and replaced it with the Orasat 1 meter and swapped the Invacom LNB to the new ORasat dish.

I also had an old TV outside and connected it to the the dish/motor and...nothing.

Well, I got some Quality, but no Strength.

Move the dish side to side, up and down.

Nothing.

Tried different TP's.

Nothing.

Moved the motor/dish assembly over a few degrees to 119, strictly for testing purposes, as that bird is much stronger than 123W

Nothing.

I also tried bypassing the motor and diseqc switch so it was just 25' of RG6 connected from the Invacom to the STB and tried moving the dish up and down, side to side and still, nothing.

I realize that the offset for the Orasat is probably different than the Fortec, but can't find any specs for it online.

Any suggestions?

I'm going to try again tomorrow at 1:11 PM, when the Sun is at True South, but I think the up and down angle is the issue and the Orasat dish has a lousy setup when it comes to this adjustment.

Thanks.

BTW, here is an easy way to find True South. Just be sure to add 1 hour during Daylight Savings Time:
Sun or Moon Altitude/Azimuth Table

You don't need to know the offset angle, but you do have to make very slow adjustments. You're probably just moving the dish to fast. This is one time that it helps to have a handheld meter, because it will quickly get you up to the arc. May not tell you which sat you're on, but it will tell you if you're on the arc.

However, since you're going to use the sun anyway, what I would suggest is.... when the time for the sun to be south of you is coming up, adjust the dish elevation so that the shadow of the lnbf just barely touches the bottom of the dish. That will get you very close to the proper dish elevation. Then make very slow adjustments up and down. If you still don't find anything, I'd suspect that you might have broken a coax or something.

[bill190]

P.S. Dishes which come with elevation markings on the mounting hardware sometimes do not have accurate markings. And then these markings go out the window when you stick the dish on a HH mount. The markings are for use when the dish is mounted on a plum pole, but again they can not be relied on because sometimes they are not accurate. Same thing with HH mount markings.

So I get the dish offset amount from the manufacturer. Use a dish pointing calculator to find the elevation of the satellite I am pointing at, then subtract the offset and using an inclonometer, set the dish elevation to what the dish pointing calculator says.

And the bottom line, HH mount or not, the dish needs to be at the correct elevation to get that satellite.

Save me a TON of trouble when I set up a dish this way. Always accurate!

Buy inclonometers here...
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Order/Install/Compass.htm

Find your accurate latitude, longitude, and elevation...
(Keep double clicking on map to get your exact location. Then click on Find Elevation/Height, then click on Location.)
http://www.earthtools.org

Accurate dish pointing calculator which also factors in your elevation above sea level....
http://www.satellite-calculations.co...lookangles.htm

[SkyPilot]

The cable is not faulty, as I just used it to go to my True South sat minutes earlier using my fortec dish.

I also used a shorter piece of RG 6 which I previously tested as well, and reconnected my Fortec dish so I know that my Invacom LNB, RG6, etc... is all in good working condition.

I have an Inclometer, but don't know what the settings should be, or how to use it.

If my settings say that the dish should be pointed at 123W for true south, at a 45 degree angle, does that mean the dish arm should be pointing upwards at 45 degrees, or that the dish should be pointing upwards at 45 degrees?

Once I discovered how to find True South using the Sun, I was able to peak my Fortec Dish 2 or 3 times almost by eyeballing it after having to move my dish location one time, and replace the motor under warranty another time, but I can't peak this dish for some reason.

I realize 123W is a weak sat, but I also tried 119 and couldn't get a signal either.

Also, I traded for this dish for some FTA stuff I had laying around.

I didn't buy it new, so I don't have any specs on it which is one of the reasons why I posted.

Can't find anything online for a Orasat dish which measures 40" x 36"

Also has "Unipine S900W" on the hardware box that came with it..

I use the Signal meter of my old Skyview box and a 19" TV to grab the signal, as the Skyview box also has a loud beep tone to indicate signal strength as well as a visual scale.

[SkyPilot]

Originally Posted by wejones

You don't need to know the offset angle, but you do have to make very slow adjustments. You're probably just moving the dish to fast. This is one time that it helps to have a handheld meter, because it will quickly get you up to the arc. May not tell you which sat you're on, but it will tell you if you're on the arc.

However, since you're going to use the sun anyway, what I would suggest is.... when the time for the sun to be south of you is coming up, adjust the dish elevation so that the shadow of the lnbf just barely touches the bottom of the dish.That will get you very close to the proper dish elevation. Then make very slow adjustments up and down. If you still don't find anything, I'd suspect that you might have broken a coax or something.

The Sun is nearly directly overhead at that time, so it would be impossible to do that and it would not be anywhere near the correct elevation.

Again, I ran a short length of RG6 that I know to be good directly to the LNB from the STB, so I can rule out switches, LNB's, Cables, etc...

Tried again today at 1:11 PM when the Sun was at true south for my location.

Moved the dish up and down, side to side and still nothing.

I remounted my Fortec 80 cm, basically eyeballed it and got good signal strength and quality, yet for some reason, the Orasat dish can't catch a signal.

[bill190]

I have a wiz bang calculator which says your dish would have about a 28 degree offset.

I don't know if this calculator works or not, but no harm in trying...

So to use an inclinometer, place a board on the front of the dish edge to edge. If the dish itself is straight up and down, that would be 0 degrees angle.

So set the dish so it is straight up down and place the inclinometer on a board across the front edges of the dish so it reads 0.

There may be a bar on the back of the dish which is parallel to the front edges of the dish and you would be able to use that bar and also get 0 degrees with your inclinometer. If this is the case, you can use that bar in the back to adjust the elevation on your dish.

Now tilt the dish slightly toward the sky, the inclinometer will read 10 degrees, 20 degrees, 30 degrees, etc. More degrees as you tilt it more and more toward the sky.

Straight up so it looks like a bird bath and that would be 90 degrees. The inclinometer should also read 90 degrees.

Here is a diagram of what an offset dish does actually...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offset_dish_antenna

So actually looking at the above picture, your dish may look like it is pointing toward the house next door, but it is actually pointing toward the sky!

Get the angle you need to aim at your satellite, then subtract 28 degrees from that, and this should be the angle your dish should be at to find that satellite.

So 45 degrees minus 28 = 17 degrees elevation on the Orasat dish.

Or if a ranch style home and mounted near your roof gutter, it would probably look like the dish was pointed at the peak of your neighbors roof. Not much tilt, yet it is actually aiming 45 degrees up!

I assume you are using the same LNB with each dish? Try that if you are not.

Also if there is square channel on the bar which holds the LNB, be sure it looks OK and not deformed anywhere. Sometimes these can fill with water, then freeze and this will bend the bar out of place. I would look kind of rounded toward where water would sit inside the bar if this happened.

[SkyPilot]

Wow! Thanks for putting in the effort and researching this.

I will definitely give this a try.

It is a new dish, but only came with an assembly sheet and the markings on the side of the dish are somewhat cryptic and hard to read.

I have an inclinometer much like this one: Johnson Level & Tool 700 Contractor Magnetic Angle Locator

So using the inclinometer in the above picture, I would lay it against the bar on the back of the dish and set the dish angle so the inclinometer reaches 17 degrees?

And yes, I am using the same Invacom Quad LNB for both dishes.

[SkyPilot]

You Sir, are a genius!

I went out and set the dish at 17 degrees using the LNB bar that attaches to the back of the dish with the inclinomter, came back in, turned on the STB and used the "Auto Position" feature on my Captive Works Premium STB and got a signal on 123W, which is about .5 degrees off of True South for me.

I'm able to get 86% Quality and 64% Strength on 123W/TP 11805, but no other TP's on 123W just yet.

I still have some fine tuning to do, but at least now I'm not just taking shots in the dark and guessing, and I know I'm close to where I need to be, as there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks again for your time, effort and research, as it is much appreciated.

Now, if only they would bring back RetroJams.

[elgemcdlf]

Aren't retro jams on every weekend?

[SkyPilot]

In addition to weekends, RetroJams used to be on pretty much all day on a couple of channels on 123W

BTW, fine tuned my dish elevation and all is well all across the arc.

Getting 86% Quality and 76% Strength on 123W/11805, where before with my 80cm Fortec Dish, I was getting Strength in the mid-40's, on 11805 and channels on TP 11720 would often pixelate due to Strength being in the mid 20's, low 30's, but now I'm getting 87% Quality and 55% Strength, which is great for 11720 considering that it is not the strongest TP out there.

Other Sats that were marginal are showing nice gains as well.

Thanks again to bill190 as I couldn't find any info online on this dish and didn't have a clue as how to find the correct offset angle.

I was guessing mid 20's offset, and even with the 19" TV out there with my STB, I still couldn't find a signal, and I'd probably still be out there sweating and swearing.

Once I read his post, I set it the dish at 17 degrees and it was almost dead on. Just had to do a tiny bit of adjustment to get everything perfect.

It's definitely true that the bigger the dish, the more difficult it it to peak and to even find a signal, but it was worth it after all the hassle.

[bill190]

Originally Posted by SkyPilot

...Thanks again to bill190...

You're quite welcome!

[diggah]

I just wanted to bump the thread to thank wejones and bil190. As a noob I'm still trying to come up to speed; and having a better understanding of where my dish was actually pointing made a huge difference in time it took me to get getting up and running. (I spent the better part of last Sunday eyeballing the thing, when I should have just done a bit more reading).


Live and learn.

Thanks again guys.