New system questions

[SeaDawg]

1. Why are my adjustments so far off when aligning my dish?
   • System:
     M1 upgraded to Fortec Star 5400NA, 100Cm dish, SM3D22 motor.
   • My Lat is: 31.97N
   • My Long is 110.99W
   • Motor elevation: set to Lat 31.97
   • Declination angle: 5.24
   • Dish elevation calculates to 41.26
   • Dish elevation adjusted to ~ 36
   • I am certain I have my sat pointed to true south.
     (magnetic south -11° for Tucson)
   • Okay, with the above info I am able to get a very strong signal from EchoStar 8 which is 110°. My Long is 110.99°W. I used USALS to point the dish to EchoStar 8 but had no signal till I adjusted the dish elevation to 36 from 41.26. Why?
   • I did not need to make any Long adjustment which seems to indicate I have my true south set pretty dead on.
   • I am also concerned that my alignment may not be right because I am not finding some satellites that are further off center east and west, even after doing a manual scan using LyngSat data. So, either my alignment is off or the data is bad.
2. How reliable is LyngSat data?
   • I selected EchoStar 8 with the receiver and did a scan for all channels, FTA and non-FTA. The channels found were pretty much what I expected based on the LyngSat data for this sat.
     
     BYU TV is supposed to be a freq of 12253 with a SR of 20.000 and a VPID of 7458. There is a dish network ($) channel found at this freq. The BYU TV is also found but is also indicated as ($).
3. Also, I am finding other sats that are also not finding FTA channels, even after trying a manual scan with the data provided by LyngSat.

So, this is my dilemma. I'm paying someone to come out to make sure my alignment is correct. If I still have issues I have to wonder if LyngSat is reliable and I have to wonder if I bought the wrong receiver. The receiver documentation really really sucks.

There seems to be a wealth of FTA stuff out there but I'm beginning to think I just wasted a lot of money.

Any advice would be helpful.

[keebs]

seadog, cancel that appointment for someone to align your dish. i too am fairly new to fta. i kind of felt the way you did at first. i slowed down and had to exhibit tons of patience. get your lat and long set but dont tighten up the nuts yet. give yourself plenty of time to play with it, if this is your first set up dont expect to have it up and running in a few hours. and if you think you are going slow with your movements, go even slower. some of these dishes are notorious for being off by a fraction, and its up to you to correct them. but it takes time. BUT, when i did start to get things going in the right direction it was awesome. bit by bit the thing started to come together and eventually i was successful and it felt good. and i think lyngsat sucks, i used FTAList.com for a ref in finding what i was pointing at. the lists just are formatted easier to read. ALSO, there are a bunch of very knowledgeable folks on here that can answer you questions in a timely matter usually. they helped my alot. just be patient and i think youll be happy setting it up yourself, it was half the fun for me.

[rainman]

it is not unusual for the dish elevation to be off by 5 degrees my 90 cm was also off remember the calculated angles is only a starting point. the easiest way to make sure of how far you are moving the motor on the pole is to mark your starting point after each 1/16th of inch adjustment allow 15 to 20 seconds for the receiver to see the change if you are using it as the signal meter. also helpful to have the receiver and small TV at the dish so you can monitor the changes. as keebs said very slow movement a 1/8th inch can loose signal.

[Bibbler]

Settle down Man.. Relax!

1st off, Yes indeed, cancel that appointment. Chances are the guy doesn't understand a FTA system anyway....

We've all been through this. In a few days you'll wonder why it seemed so hard...

[SeaDawg]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll do as suggested. I do have a question, though, regarding alignment.

Okay, so I've got my dish well aligned to EchoStar 8 (110°). Now, lets say I try to get to programming on Galaxy 25 (97°) but don't find a signal and have to make alignment adjustments to get it in. So I make the adjustments. what happens to alignment performed to get EchoStar 8? Then lets say I want to get programming on Galaxy 27 (129°) and find I again have to adjust for this one. What happens to EchoStar 8 and Galaxy 25?

Is this going to be a process of back and forth alignment for all satellites within view of my dish in order to finally get to a point where I just select the channel I want to watch and the dish will move to the correct spot and alignment?

I guess this is what is confusing to me.

Thanks.

[rainman]

On your true south sat adjust elevation and azimuth to receive best signal. then move to your farest west sat and ajust motor on the pole to receive best signal do not adjust elevation here. move back to your south sat and check signal adjust elevation on dish to recive best signal.then move to east sat and adjust the motor on pole east and west to receive best signal then back to your south sat for elevation adjustment continue these steps untill you can lock all sats in your line of sat all adjustments should be made in small slow movements allowing time between each adjustment for receiver to see the change.good luck and happy hunting.

[William Eng]

Keep at it. Imagine an arc in the sky. The highest point is your southern satellite. If you are not picking up the satellites at the east/west end, then you need to adjust your dish elevation (never mind what the computations say), but fix your motor elevation first. It's critical that your pole is plumb straight, otherwise your arc will be tilted and never work.

The instructions at Sadoun are most helpful.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by SeaDawg

1. Why are my adjustments so far off when aligning my dish?
   • ......
   • Motor elevation: set to Lat 31.97
   • Declination angle: 5.24
   • Dish elevation calculates to 41.26
   • Dish elevation adjusted to ~ 36
   • I am certain I have my sat pointed to true south.
     (magnetic south -11° for Tucson)
   • Okay, with the above info I am able to get a very strong signal from EchoStar 8 which is 110°. My Long is 110.99°W. I used USALS to point the dish to EchoStar 8 but had no signal till I adjusted the dish elevation to 36 from 41.26. Why?

.....

A couple coments and a question. First, I would have recommended that you use 32.6 for your latitude, and 4.6 for your declination, as a starting point.
Second, just to be sure, is the magnetic heading you are using 191 or 169? Ie did you add or subtract the 11? I assume 169.
Third, some motors have both a latitude scale and an elevation scale. If it has both, make sure that you used the latitude scale rather than the elevation scale, because that 31.97 is NOT the elevation.
Fourth, how do you know that you were on Echo-8?? Were you able to scan in the GOL channels? Ie you may have been aimed at another of the ECHO sats, unless you scanned in transponders to see what channels were there, and any other of those sats would have been lower in the sky.

[SeaDawg]

Thanks a bunch for all the replies. I'm feeling better already.

I just got back from the Match Play Championship (for any of you that play golf) here in Tucson. A much needed break from satellite frustration.

To wejones:

• For the starting point, why 32.6° for latitude? My GPS pegs me right at 31.99 (wrong figure in my original post). Also, why 4.6° for the declination angle? I assume this setup will help me get closer to the tracking arc I need?
• Yes, my magnetic heading is 169°.
• The motor only has a latitude scale which I set to 31.99 when I first lined up to Echo 8.
• Correct, I was able to scan in the GOL channels which my wife especially loves as an ex-soccer coach.

To rainman:

• So it looks like a combination of adjusting the dish for the south sat and the motor for the east/west sats going back and forth till all sats are riding on the 'arc' formed by my dishes east - west movements. This makes sense.

To William Eng:

• Your alignment suggestions seem the same as rainman's. Makes sense.
• Yes, I very carefully made sure my mount pole is as perfectly plumb as I could get it, before and after mounting the dish assembly.

Well, I think I have a lot of great info here. Thanks a lot for it all. I now feel confident that I'll get it all set up and I'm definitely cancelling the service appointment.

[rainman]

good for you Seadawg that's the type of attitude you need to get this thing up and going. it's tough the first time but before you know it you will be helping others getting setup. remember we all have been in your shoes at one time or the other.

[glen4cindy]

Originally Posted by wejones

Fourth, how do you know that you were on Echo-8?? Were you able to scan in the GOL channels?

Not trying to hijack this post, but, are these channels linear or circular? When I first set up my system, I did not really know what I was doing and have 1 channel on 105 and 121 each. They just say 'Congradulations, you have just set up a superdish system on xxx!' My LNBF is linear. I was unable to get anything else from these sats like the promo on 11940-H-26000. Strange that I get the one promo and not the other. Not that I want the promo, but, again at the time, I did not really know what I was scanning!

Thanks.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by glen4cindy

Not trying to hijack this post, but, are these channels linear or circular? When I first set up my system, I did not really know what I was doing and have 1 channel on 105 and 121 each. They just say 'Congradulations, you have just set up a superdish system on xxx!' My LNBF is linear. I was unable to get anything else from these sats like the promo on 11940-H-26000. Strange that I get the one promo and not the other. Not that I want the promo, but, again at the time, I did not really know what I was scanning!

Thanks.

echo star 8 at 110w use circular Transponders you may be able to get some of the TP with a standard lnb i think Wejones does.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by SeaDawg

....
To wejones:

• For the starting point, why 32.6° for latitude? My GPS pegs me right at 31.99 (wrong figure in my original post). Also, why 4.6° for the declination angle? I assume this setup will help me get closer to the tracking arc I need?
• Yes, my magnetic heading is 169°.
• The motor only has a latitude scale which I set to 31.99 when I first lined up to Echo 8.
• Correct, I was able to scan in the GOL channels which my wife especially loves as an ex-soccer coach.

To rain....

Re 32.6 and 4.6, the 5.24 declination you WERE using is the declination of a south satellite. Declination of the sats actually vary from that value to 4.6 degrees for sats to your east or west. If you use 5.24, you will be off by up to 0.6 degrees. However, if you use 4.6, then adjust your latitude setting up by 0.6 degrees to compensate, you will be right on across the arc.
Re other things, good, just checking, looking for common mistakes.

[elgemcdlf]

All I can add is tracking the arc is a combination of 3 settings. There is no one special setting that will make or break you. I personally do not like using Echo birds for alignment as their signal is so strong you think you have a good alignment on them when really you may not. In your case it is your south sat so work with it.

Once you have a lock on your south sat start from there and move out to the east to the farthest sat you can lock onto. Now gently push up on the dish. Does the signal go up or down? Write that down. Now do the same for the west. If you get opposite results your dish is not perfectly aligned on center.

This is critical to tracking a large portion of the arc. If you received opposite results move the dish a little bit in the direction of the up movement produced a higher signal. This is a movement accomplished by rotating the entire assembly on the mast. Continue this process until you are getting a lower reading when pushing up and pulling down on both ends of your arc. You are now perfectly centered.

With this accomplished we simply need to work with motor and dish elevation. If you are not getting the full arc at this time try raising the dish a degree and retrying. Work only with dish elevation at this time. Work with it until you have as large an arc as you can get. If you do not have the full arc yet work with both dish and motor. For every degree you raise the dish lower the motor. You may be lowering the dish and raising the motor. All depends on your results.

It will be fun to watch this process. When you get to the end of it you will be very glad you did not call in someone else to do it. Before long you will be posting advice to others

[SeaDawg]

Lot's of great answers with great detail. This is great. I've cancelled the appt. and I'll be working on completing the alignment this weekend. This forum is definitely a wealth of information for the asking.

Thanks a bunch.