Dazed and Confused

[Evessal]

Hello all

Since my parents and myself are from Iran we somtimes long for programming from the Ayatollahland, so I thought it would be a good idea to invest in a satellite system in order to be able to view some of the Persian FTA channels. Well, after doing some research on satellites, I was left dazed and confused Led Zeppelin style! I am totally clueless as to what to get, so I was hoping I could ask some questions to get rid of these clouds in my head.

Q1: I go this site called Lyngsat (www.lyngsat.com) and I see that there are something like 10 billion satellites hovering over Planet Earth and beaming programs (gee talk about space junk!) so I was wondering as to which of these satellites I can gain access to with what dish? I live in San Diego, CA if that matters. Actually, I think I might have figured this one out, but am not sure. When I click on the satellites name, they link me to this site that shows maps with areas colored in. I take it these areas colored in are the places where one can access the satellite. So if I understand correctly, from San Diego, CA I could not access a satellite that was stationed at 13 Degrees East (location of Hotbird 6 sat) right?

Q2: Does dish size matter, and how?

Q3: How exactly does Motorized systems give you access to more channels.... and is it worth it? Sadoun says that it's harder to install, and seeing how I'm so clueless, how hard is it to install? I would not want to buy it and let it to sit and rot.

Q4: Channels that are encrypted have to be paid for right?

Q5: How do the different numbered LBNF's matter? What's the difference between 0.6 dB and say 0.4dB.

Q6: Could I use the dish I purchase for Directv?

Q7: Anyway to get European Soccer (Premiership, Serie A, La Liga) and the BBC from a FTA system? If I needed to pay that would be A Ok.

I'll stop there, and that is asking a lot! Sorry for being bothersome, it's just that I'm too afraid to purchase a system right now because I'm so clueless and the technical jargon just goes over my head. If anyone can provide any answers to any of the questions I have posed I would be really grateful. Didn't know satellites were so complicated! Oooof!

Ehsan

[rainman]

Welcome Evessal.

#1. YOU are right you will not be able to get Hotbid 6.

#2. yes the bigger you can go the better would recommend nothing smaller than 80 cm dish.

#3. with motorized systems you can move to different sats more sats equal's more channels.more difficult to set up yes but doable.

#4. yes

#5.lnbf are grade by noise the lower the number the better usually.

#6. no to small.

#7. some comes in clear once in a while.for subscription programing check www.sadoun.com on Globecast systems.

[Evessal]

Originally Posted by rainman

Welcome Evessal.

#1. YOU are right you will not be able to get Hotbid 6.

#2. yes the bigger you can go the better would recommend nothing smaller than 80 cm dish.

#3. with motorized systems you can move to different sats more sats equal's more channels.more difficult to set up yes but doable.

#4. yes

#5.lnbf are grade by noise the lower the number the better usually.

#6. no to small.

#7. some comes in clear once in a while.for subscription programing check www.sadoun.com on Globecast systems.

Heya thanks rainman for your help! You've helped clear a lot of the cobwebs up.

Just had a few more questions though. If FTA dishes are too small for DirecTV/Dish, what about the reverse? Would I be able to receive FTA channels on Directv/Dish dishes?

Also, couldn't I manually move a stationary dish to point at different satellites if I did not want to get a motorized dish?

Thanks again

ehsan

[pmb1010]

other than maybe a specially configured Globecast reciever (that Sadoun sells) if you have the basic FTA receiver, even if you want to pay for services, you cannot with these boxes.
Essentially, they are only good for "in the clear" reception.

For Directv and Dish network, they use 18" dishes, and circular LNB's.

For FTA, you must use minimum 30" dish, and usually Linear LNB.

You could use the 30" dish for Directv or Dish (using the right LNB), and some folks do such, to help with signal reception and reduce rain fade.

These FTA setups are not intended, and do a lousy job of trying to replace - a Dish type setup.

You could manually move dish to each satellite. Alignment is tricky, these satellites are much weaker in power than Dish network. It can take a few minutes to find and get locked in.

Trust me, unless you can see a specific need to stay parked on one satellite (IA5 is one example, it has tons of ethnic channels), you'll want to get a motor to explore things. But you could get the stationary system, get it aligned on IA5 for the channel(s) you want, and never move from there... or get a motor later.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Evessal

Heya thanks rainman for your help! You've helped clear a lot of the cobwebs up.

Just had a few more questions though. If FTA dishes are too small for DirecTV/Dish, what about the reverse? Would I be able to receive FTA channels on Directv/Dish dishes?

Also, couldn't I manually move a stationary dish to point at different satellites if I did not want to get a motorized dish?

Thanks again

ehsan

I think that was a typo. I think Rainman was saying that a DTV/Disnet dish would be too small for FTA, not that an FTA dish would be too small for DTV/Dishnet. In fact, if you can get by with a single satellite DTV/Dishnet system, a FTA dish is bigger and will outperform a standard DBS dish.
HOWEVER a regular FTA dish has a linear lnbf, and the DBS dishes use a circular lnbf, so you'd have to use a 2nd lnbf to do both. Also, if you need 2 DBS sats, like to get local channels, etc, then the switching gets complicated, and/or you'd have to move the dish to get to other channels. Plus, there are other potential problems with band switching on dishnet. Bottom line is that if you intend to have both FTA and DBS, it's best to have separate systems.

Also, relative to your question #4..... assuming that you are talking about channels that you receive on the FTA system.... I think Rainman's answer refers to the foreign subscribable channels described on the Sadoun site, however 95% of the channels that are encrypted just can't be received whether you want to pay or not, ie you can't subscribe to them. Those few foreign language channels that you CAN subscribe to, you need you get the appropriate receiver (most FTA receivers don't have any capability of subscribing to anything, however some of them have CAM modules to let you subscribe). However most of the FTA signals up there are not "Broadcasts", but rather are private transmissions not intended for the public, and if they are encrypted, then there is no way to receive them. What I'm trying to get across is that just because Lyngsat says that a channel is encrypted doesn't mean that it is possible to subscribe. However there is a lot up there to watch that isn't encrypted, so most people just watch the things that aren't encrypted.

And, yes, you can manually move a fixed FTA dish to aim at any sat, and many people do this.

[radiobob]

Evessal:

Satellite Intelsat Americas 5 has more channels in Farsi than you can shake a stick at (if one were prone to poking at Persians ).

Check ftalist.com for lists broken down by languages.

So, you could do a fixed installation aimed just at IA5. The advantage of having a motorized system is that you can get lots of other stuff as well. And, if you're going to go to the trouble of installing a FTA dish and if you have a pretty clear view of the southern horizon, the extra $70-$150 bucks is money very well spent.

As for soccer...
Gol TV on Echostar 8 broadcasts nothing but soccer in the clear, but because of circular polarization, a separate LNB (or a dual-use LNB like the Invacom Quad) would be required. I think the teams tend toward Latin American clubs, but I'm sure there's also Europeans, too.

Good luck,
Bob

[Reinhold]

Besides the Latin America teems,there are o lot off teems from Spain.
I have also watched German socker and socker from England.
On IA5 there are socker broadcasts from Asien countries on occasion.
I started off with the standard system sold by Sadoun,31"dish universal LNB and Lifetime ultra receiver oh and the SM3D12 motor.I have since changed to a 120cm dish QPHO31LNBF(rotary and liniar) and the hh120 motor.The 120cm dish definately gives me more reception.
I started off last october.
Just something to make you think.
Reinhold.

[rainman]

It was'nt a typo Bill I read the question wrong.

[Evessal]

Ah thank you everyone with your answers! I do believe some of this stuff is making sense. So basically my understanding is that since Dish/DirecTV/Echostar requires LNBF's that are circular, and FTA requires LNBF's that are linear, I could not get Dish Network and FTA together unless I got a 2-in-1 Circular and Linear LNBF right?

Well I can do without Dish Network for the time being (Digital Cable has treated me fine). But a question on Satellites. How are you able to tell which satellites require a circular LNBF and which ones require linear? For instance, one channel I'm interested in getting is Real Madrid TV, which is broadcast for free on both Echostar 9 and Telstar 13 (Intelsat Americas are same as Telstar no?) Now Radiobob said that Echostar 8 requires circular LNBF, so I'm assuming Echostar 9 likewise circular too no? And since Telstar 5 in linear, Telstar 13 is linear as well? How do I tell?

By the way, what are some of the channels that broadcast Euro/South American soccer, I know of Gol TV, Setanta Sports ($$$ required), and Real Madrid TV. Any others though?

Thanks again. Sorry if I'm beginning to get on anyones nerves.

Ehsan

[rainman]

if the transponders are listed R or L they are circular. if they are listed V or H they are linear.

[Evessal]

Originally Posted by rainman

if the transponders are listed R or L they are circular. if they are listed V or H they are linear.

Awww yeah then! That meanst Intelsat 13 is linear and I can get Real Madrid TV, woohoio!!!!!!!

[pmb1010]

Well, yes you can, but not with a Ku band (30" dish) setup.

Notice how Lyngsat has numbers in the far left column (Freq TP).

IA13 starts at 3714, goes to 4186 in its table. Then it breaks, and goes to a new table with 11724.

The numbers below 10,000 are C-Band (big dish) frequencies. So you'd need a 6 foot or bigger dish to get them. And the Madrid station you're looking to get, is at 3900V.

The numbers above 10,000 are Ku band (30" dish) frequencies. But this sat seems to be used for Dishnetwork and most all are scambled.

Sorry for the bad news.

[Evessal]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

Well, yes you can, but not with a Ku band (30" dish) setup.

Notice how Lyngsat has numbers in the far left column (Freq TP).

IA13 starts at 3714, goes to 4186 in its table. Then it breaks, and goes to a new table with 11724.

The numbers below 10,000 are C-Band (big dish) frequencies. So you'd need a 6 foot or bigger dish to get them. And the Madrid station you're looking to get, is at 3900V.

The numbers above 10,000 are Ku band (30" dish) frequencies. But this sat seems to be used for Dishnetwork and most all are scambled.

Sorry for the bad news.

Lol, everytime I think I understand something another thing always pops up. So if I got a dish greater than 6 foot, I could get the Madrid TV and all the goodies I'd want from say Telstar 5 right? I notice Telstar 5 is C band and has similar numbering (3800's and such) to Telstar 13.

[pmb1010]

I'll give the answer as "sort of".

C and Ku are 2 different things, really.

There are discussions on this site that talk about getting Ku band on a C band dish, and their inherent issues involved in doing so.

Terms like "mesh size", "slaved LNB", "actuator arm" for positoning, stuff like that.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

I'll give the answer as "sort of".

C and Ku are 2 different things, really.

There are discussions on this site that talk about getting Ku band on a C band dish, and their inherent issues involved in doing so.

Terms like "mesh size", "slaved LNB", "actuator arm" for positoning, stuff like that.

What pmb1010 is getting at, is that a C/Ku band dish will cost more, it has more costly feeds, ie you need a feed that takes both a C and Ku lnb (unless you want to have separate dishes for each band for some reason), and there are different ways of moving the dish which require separate wiring, and different ways of changing the polarity (again separate wiring).
Most people who have bigger C/Ku dishes don't just have a FTA receiver, but also have analog receivers and Digicipher (DCII) receivers. Ie there is a lot more expense involved, but that's the way to get the most from satellite.