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Fortec Star Discussions, Q&A about Fortec Star satellite receivers, LNBF, and dishes.

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Old 02-19-2006, 10:18 PM
tidzu tidzu is offline
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Fortec Star Classic, HH90 Motor, 36" Dish, FSKU2v, VTV

I just received my M-1 Fortec Star Classic system (2 Fortect Star Classic receivers, 1 Fortect STAB HH90 motor, 36" Fortect Star Dish, 1 FSKU2v). Started to setup the dish and receiver this afternoon. Setup the dish pointed to Intelsat Americas 5 at 97.0 W in order to receive the VTV 4 channel. Tried to add the TP (11966 H) to the TP list (this TP is missing from the default list). However, the reciever kept complaining that this number is invalid? I live in Federal Way, Washington State. Here is my settings:


Latidude: 47.6

Longtidude: 122.3

Dish Elevation: 37.9

Azimuth: 180 - 18 = 162

I used the satfinder to find the sat and the signal strength is about 70-80 on some of the TPs. However, I cannot get any channels when doing the power scan. It only shows the scamble channels (25 channels)

Anything wrong in the way that I setup my system?
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Old 02-20-2006, 10:33 AM
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Wrong Sat Likely

Whenever you see your quality hit 70% or so you have found A satellite. Although, it may not be the satellite you are looking for. You may have hit on a sat that is close to the azimuth you are looking for, but because the sat you hit on has only data signals or encoded channels (dish, directv, etc) you can not download channels.


My advice: Once you hit on a satellite but cannot download channels. Try the satellites that are to the left and right of the one you want, scan all + data, thay way you will find some sort of signal and know what sat you have hit on. Once you know where you are at you can figure out where to go.

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Old 02-22-2006, 02:04 PM
tidzu tidzu is offline
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I really need help here. I spent the last Sat and Sun to set the system and could not get it to detect any Sats at all. Here are my setup info:

City: Federal Way
State: WA
Zip code: 98023

Latidude: 47.6

Longtidude: 122.3

Dish Elevation: 37.9

Azimuth: 180 - 18 = 162

Pole 90 Deg


I set the dish pointed to True South (at 0 Reference) and use the Sat Finder to detect the signal and made adjustments to the dish elevation. The Sat Finder gave me the strong detection indication. However, when I hooked up the receiver and select IA5 Sat, I could not get any channels at all. The level indicates '0%'. I tried to make fine adjustments t the dish and elevation and the result was still the same.


Anything wrong in the way that I setup my system?
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:35 PM
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one mistake, if I read this right...

Set your system to "0" Reference, and point to 162 on compass.
Set the rest to the numbers you provided.

Now, go into receiver settings, tell it you have a motor, and input your LAT and LONG into the receiver. Have the motor "drive" to G10R (it wont move much, but it must move a little).

Set your receiver to an ACTIVE TRANSPONDER for G10R (search here for G10R active Transponder) and I'm sure there is a post with that (I can't get G10R due to trees, I'm on east coast)

Now adjust your dish elevation, and the motor side to side on the pole, in very small (1/16") to find the signal.

I think you are trying to adjust before moving to the sat with USALS and that is the mistake.

Report back, pls.

PMB
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Old 02-23-2006, 01:03 AM
tidzu tidzu is offline
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Thanks for the tips.

I did set my motor to "0" reference and pointed to 162 degree on compass.

I did setup the LONG and LAT in my receiver

I did have the receiver move the dish to IA5 sat and adjust the dish. No signal detected at all.

I will try to have the receiver move the dish to G10R as you suggested.

Will keep you posted
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Old 02-23-2006, 08:42 AM
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A couple things in your symptoms (ie locking scrambled channels and the 11966 freq being out of range) suggest to me that you might not have the LO freq (lnbf type) set correctly, and/or it is not switching correctly.
Ie, I think your lnbf is a universal 9750/10600 LO , which on my receiver (different model) is listed as Universal 1. Make sure those two LO freqs show up in the LNBF settings for every satellite you try to tune.
Also, don't forget that when you have one of those motorized systems, that there are 2 "dish elevation" angle settings, one on the motor, and one on the dish itself. Make sure you haven't reversed which is which. If you have these angles wrong, you won't be able to tune your due south sat, which is why, as others suggest, you should always start by getting that to work first before trying a sat further east or west.
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Old 02-23-2006, 07:30 PM
tidzu tidzu is offline
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Thanks for the tips. I did setup the dish elevation and the motor angles correctly. Also, I don't have any swtiches and my LNBF is a dual FSKU2v. I am not sure about the type of the LNBF. I need to check the box. However, when I was in the receiver setup mode, I saw the LNBF type was UNIVERSAL. Do I need to change this or the receiver automactially detects the correct type of the LNBF? It keeps raining here for the last couple days and I have not had a chance to try out the tips I received so far from this forum yet.
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Old 02-24-2006, 12:31 AM
bsky bsky is offline
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One thing worth noting based on my experience is the dish elevation. The scale is not very accurate, I had to push my dish toward the sky 10 more degree to get a signal (yes, my pole is perfectly plumb). Assuming your calculation is correct on the compass heading, motor elevation (you should not need to adjust this), you should try to get a signal within +/- 20* of your compass heading and dish elevation. I would start out at the center (where you think the dish should be) then go 5* to either direction then once you have a signal you can fine tune it. My lesson for 2 days on the ladder is that do not lock onto the dish elevation value, it can change a lot and in my case it's 10* off from where it should be. My experience with the HH90 motor is not very good, it died in about 9 months. I got a HH100, it's bigger (thus you need a different bracket to fit it), it's built much stronger so a year now no problem.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tidzu
Thanks for the tips. I did setup the dish elevation and the motor angles correctly.
Well, relative to the setting being made correctly, obviously something isn't correct. Often people set the angles that are indicated by the instructions, but are often confused because different instructions assume different markings on the dish and motor, etc. I'll comment on the dish aim down below, but first wanted to comment on the LNBF settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tidzu
Also, I don't have any swtiches and my LNBF is a dual FSKU2v. I am not sure about the type of the LNBF. I need to check the box. However, when I was in the receiver setup mode, I saw the LNBF type was UNIVERSAL. Do I need to change this or the receiver automactially detects the correct type of the LNBF? It keeps raining here for the last couple days and I have not had a chance to try out the tips I received so far from this forum yet.
No, the receiver doesn't know what kind of LNBF you have, and you'll have to make sure it is set properly on each satellite. The receiver actually receives from 950-2100 MHz, and the LO / LNBF type setting only tells it what to subtract from your freq. Ie if enter 11966, and are set on the 9750/10600 universal, it will choose 10600 and subtract to get an IF of 1366, but if you have the wrong LNBF type, or if the LNBF isn't switching properly, it will come up with the wrong frequency.

Re the alignment of the dish, it LOOKS like you are using the OK numbers, however, in case you are being confused by the markings on the dish and or motor mount, I've put together a short description of where those numbers came from.

***********************



Dish aim from Lat= 47.6 Lon= 122.3

Due south satellite= Galaxy 10r at 123.0 deg

For a prime focus fixed Az/El Dish

Azim= 180.9 elev= 35.3

For a prime focus motorized dish

Declination= 6.41 { note the Sadoun chart is WRONG}
Approx Lat Setting = 48.28 { Angle relative to ground}

For an offset motorized dish

Approx Lat Setting = 48.28 { Angle of motor shaft relative to ground}
{straight part of motor shaft, not bent part}

Declination= ?
Note, I say "?" because this angle in actuality is the same as for a prime focus dish,
however it is influenced by the angle at the end of the motor shaft, and the number of
degrees of offset of the dish itself (typically 22.5 deg), and it is also influenced by whether the markings on the
dish elevation adjustment on the dish mount and motor mounts are elevation numbers or latitude numbers.
Ie if the dish is pointed toward the horizon when the dish elevation numbers are small, then
they are elevation numbers, and if the dish is pointed high in the sky when the numbers are
small, then they are latitude numbers.
The easy adjustment is the motor elevation, once you determine whether the markings are
elevation or latitude. If the markings are latitude, set it to the number listed above for the Approx
Lat Setting. If the markings are elevation, set it to 90 degrees minus the above number, ie= 41.72
Typically, the actual offset of the dish itself can be ignorred, provided that you use the elevation
markings on the dish mount, and know if they are elevation or latitude markings. Ie, if the motor shaft was
straight, with no bend, then you would need a negative setting on the dish mount to attain the
declination setting, and this setting is not attainable on most dish mounts. However thanks to the angle
on the motor shaft, this becomes a positive number. I don't know exactly what the angle on the
various motor shafts are, but from the pictures, it looks like the HH-100 is about 30 degrees, and that
of the HH-90 looks like about 45 deg . If this is the case, then with the HH-100,
dish elevation should be 30- 6.41=23.59, and for the HH-90, 45-6.41=38.59 .
If the dish elevation is marked as latitude, then this should be 90 minus these numbers.
I'm assuming that my 38.59 number above corresponds to the 37.9 number that the Sadoun calculator
gives, given that the Sadoun declination is off by about 0.7 degrees. Note, that this 0.7 deg difference is
partially accounted for by the latitude setting being 0.7 degrees lower, which will make the alignment the same
for due south sats, but off a bit for sats to the east or west.
Anyway, as you see, the above calculations give you approximately the same numbers you were using,
ASSUMING that you were not confused by possible differences in the way the angles were marked on the
dish or motor mount, ie there is often confusion between the elevation markings and the latitude markings.
However, the above calculations will demonstrate how to alter your adjustments if the markings are different
from what is assumed in the Sadoun calculator. Also, some people get confused between the instructions
given in the motor manual and the dish manual and the Sadoun instructions, which have different ways of
saying the same thing.
Hope this is of some use.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsky
One thing worth noting based on my experience is the dish elevation. The scale is not very accurate, I had to push my dish toward the sky 10 more degree to get a signal (yes, my pole is perfectly plumb). Assuming your calculation is correct on the compass heading, motor elevation (you should not need to adjust this), you should try to get a signal within +/- 20* of your compass heading and dish elevation. I would start out at the center (where you think the dish should be) then go 5* to either direction then once you have a signal you can fine tune it. My lesson for 2 days on the ladder is that do not lock onto the dish elevation value, it can change a lot and in my case it's 10* off from where it should be. .....
.
While you are correct that the markings aren't very accurate, there is no way that anything should be off by 10 degrees. If this is the case, you were probably confusing latitude markings vs elevation markings on the dish or motor mounts, ie see my recent post. Also, I don't agree relative to your statement that if you aren't finding the sat, that you should keep the motor settings unchanged, and experiment with the dish mount angles. It is just a matter of preference, but I prefer to set the declination as best as possible and then to find the sat using the motor inclination. And if you end up way off theoretical, then you've probably been confused by the markings on the dish mount.
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:05 PM
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No confusion on my part I don't think. The motor elevation (scale marking on the motor) should be set at the location latitude value and locked down. It should only be adjusted for fine tuning and should be the last adjustment if it's ever needed. The motor scale marking is more accurate as it's machined and not pressed like the dish scale. If you leave the motor adjustment alone there are only 2 other adjustments; compass heading (east west) and dish elevation. Isn't it easier to deal with 2 adjustments than 3? Once you have a decent signal from one sat, preferable the most true south, then you can start aiming at the outter sat and fine tune.
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:30 PM
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>> The motor scale marking is more accurate as it's machined and not pressed like the dish scale.


I'd have to agree with this one... Hell, I can loosen the adjustment bolts on my Fortec 30" dish a little bit, and move it a couple degrees either way and it doesnt even move the "pointer". When I put it together, it seemed it did not line up too well, and I had to "help" things into position. Once all tightened down, it seemed stable.
When I got done, I think I had to move things about 3-4 from calculated settings. 10 does seem a lot, but honestly - doesn't surprize me.
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Old 02-25-2006, 12:06 AM
tidzu tidzu is offline
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I am confused about the LNBF setting. This is the LNBF that I bought from sadoun.com:

http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/F...ersal-LNBF.htm

What LNBF type should I set in the receiver setting?
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Old 02-25-2006, 06:38 AM
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Old 02-25-2006, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tidzu
I am confused about the LNBF setting. This is the LNBF that I bought from sadoun.com:

http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/F...ersal-LNBF.htm

What LNBF type should I set in the receiver setting?
I think I was leading you in the wrong direction on this. You probably have it right. I think that lnbf should be a"universal 9750/10600 ", which I think is probably what you chose. Initially, I thought it was strange that you came up with 25 scrambled channels without scanning in any FTA channels, and I thought that maybe you happened upon one of the DBS sats, and had the wrong LO freq programmed. However I had forgotten about Echo 9 and AMC-15 or maybe one of the Canadian sats that have lots of scrambled channels, so you probably got aimed at one of those sats. So you're probably OK on the LO setting. Sorry. However, you should check to make sure that that LO setting is correct on each sat. I have an Ultra instead of a Classic, and the Ultra has a tendency of losing the LO setting if you have too many ttransponders saved. But with a new receiver, you are probably OK.
You may just be able to use the identity of those scrambled channels to tell you what sat you are on though, because it is possible that you aren't on the sat you think you are, but are just offset a bit to the east or west.
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Old 02-25-2006, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmb1010
>> The motor scale marking is more accurate as it's machined and not pressed like the dish scale.


I'd have to agree with this one... Hell, I can loosen the adjustment bolts on my Fortec 30" dish a little bit, and move it a couple degrees either way and it doesnt even move the "pointer". When I put it together, it seemed it did not line up too well, and I had to "help" things into position. Once all tightened down, it seemed stable.
When I got done, I think I had to move things about 3-4 from calculated settings. 10 does seem a lot, but honestly - doesn't surprize me.
OK, you guys who have that specific hardware know better. Perhaps with those little dishes it's easier that way. I made my comments based on big C-band dishes, where one of the biggest mistake people make is to try peaking on sats by continually changing the declination. On my big dishes, I set my declination first, and then never touch it again. I haven't touched my current dish's declination in 10 years, during which time I've adjusted the inclination of the rotation axis and south alignment dozens of times. I just beleive that once you get the declination set, don't mess with it. However perhaps with those little dishes, it is easier to get the declination set by first setting the inclination. Plus, with the little dishes, it is less critical due to the wider beamwidth of the smaller dishes.
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Old 02-26-2006, 04:13 PM