Fortec Dish/LNBF with Dish Network 924 DVR

[shrugy]

Hi All,

I currently have the following system installed and working with TS5 and few other satellites.

1. Fortec 80cm Dish
2. Fortec FSKU-2V LNBF
3. HH100 Motor
4. Fortec 5200PVR receiver

I would like to buy a Dish 942 HD DVR and subscribe to Dish Network international package on their 121 satellite. As I understand it, the FSKU-2V is a linear LNBF, and the 121 Dish Network satellite is a linear polarity satellite, so can I simply hook up the Dish 924 DVR to one of the Fortec LNBF outputs and point the dish to the Echostar 121 satellite to watch Dish Network international programming on that satellite, or do I have to have a Dish Network dish and LNBF to successfully get their 121 satellite signal?

Thanks.

[bobkat]

Originally Posted by shrugy

... so can I simply hook up the Dish 924 DVR to one of the Fortec LNBF outputs and point the dish to the Echostar 121 satellite to watch Dish Network international programming on that satellite, or do I have to have a Dish Network dish and LNBF to successfully get their 121 satellite signal?

Thanks.

You should be able to do that. Can't see why it wouldn't work although I've never tried. But are any of the international channels on 121 broadcast in HD? Otherwise it seems like a waste of money to buy a 924 HD DVR.

kat

[shrugy]

Bobkat, thank you for the quick reply. No, currently international channels do not broadcast in HD, but I'm getting the 924 because it has a 250GB drive, so it can store more than twice the number of shows the biggest non-HD PVR can store. Besides, its HD tuner can get off-air broadcasts. So I can hook it up an HD antenna and get free local HD programming. This way, I don't have to subscribe to local channels via Dish Network. So I think it's a worthwhile investment If it will take the signal from my current Fortec dish and LNBF.

I just re-aligned my motor to be more precise in pointing to satellites (it used to be off by a couple of degrees). So, theoratically speaking, I shuold easily track Echostar 9 (121) with USALS. However, I couldn't find any FTA promo channels or such on that satellite in its lyngsat page. So how would I know that I pointing it at it correctly just with my Fortec receiver?

[kevision]

The "you are pointed at Dish 121" card is on 12074, vertical. It's burried there on Lyngsat.

[shrugy]

Yes, I got it! It even says "Congratulations, you have a super dish pointed at 121 W.I!". Thanks a lot, kevision. Now I can invest in 942 DVR with less worries.

It's really amzaing that having one dish to do this and other satellites really works. The only problem (not sure if it's really a problem) now is that am only getting 34% signal strengh on that satellite, although the test picture is very clear. When I move the rotor left or right I lose the signal. Do I need to try to adjust the elevation? My concern is that if I try adjust the dish I could mess up the installation which took me several days of adjustment to have it pointing correctly.

[shrugy]

Looks like there is a problem. I got my Dish 942 DVR and hooked it up to the fortec LNBF outputs, but I'm getting zero signal strength! The sginal strength on my fortec receiver is 82% and signal quality on the Fortec is 70%.

I went to the "Check Switch" option in the installation menu of the 942 PVR. There is a table which says "Signal Verified" for both LNBF's and "None" for the "Switch". What is a switch? Am I supposed to have it in order for the PVR to get the signal?

[shrugy]

Ok, I managed to lock some transponders on EchoStar 9 with my Dish 942 DVR, but here is the strange thing: the DVR will only lock into even transponders up to transponder #10. That is, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10. It locks with very hight signal strength, from 105 to 106. Other transponders show zero signal!

When I connect the LNBF to my fortec receiver, I get 97-100% signal quality for all transponders, and it lists the channels. However, I can't view any of the channels because my subscription only works with the Dish DVR.

Any clue what's going on with the Dish 942 DVR?

[shrugy]

I'm continuing to research why my Dish 942 DVR won't pick up most of the transponders of the 121 EchoStar satellite. I just read an old post on this board indicating that the 121 sat won't work with the Fortec lnbf because the Fortec lnbf is universal, while the 121 requires linear lnb. I personally thought that the universal lnbf is linear, isn't it? If not, then what's the difference between the universal and plain linear lnb's, and where can I get a linear lnb that will work with the 121 sat?

I appreciate any help on this.

[bobkat]

Originally Posted by shrugy

I personally thought that the universal lnbf is linear, isn't it? If not, then what's the difference between the universal and plain linear lnb's, and where can I get a linear lnb that will work with the 121 sat?

I appreciate any help on this.

I agree with you. A universal LNB is linear; and a standard LNB is also linear. So in theory the Fortec LNB should work with your Dishnet receiver on the 121 satellite. Why you are missing transponders is a mystery to me as well. Perhaps some Dishnetwork experts can shed some light onto this.

kat

[shrugy]

Following is the related messages I found on this board:

Originally Posted by t_sami

I would like to subscribe to arabic package on Echostar 9 (121W).
I have an FTA dish Satellite that I bought from Sadoun 4 years ago. I am wondering if I can use it for Echostar 9. It's 30" with Universal Linear lnb.

Originally Posted by Admin

You can use the dish fine. The LNBF may not work because it is a universal. You will need a linear LNBF.

Do you have a legacy receiver or a DISHPRO receiver?

The Admin's reply gives the impression that the two are not the same, doesn't it?

BTW, I took my reciver outside and connected it it directly with a short cable to make sure nothing in the wiring is impeding the singnal, but I got the results.. Very high signal for transponders 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10, but no signal for the others on the Dishnet receiver. All transponders show up with high signal on the Fortec receiver. The makes me wonder if dishnet receiver requires a special kind of linear lnbf?

[bobkat]

Ah yes, but read the entire thread. At first the Admin made a mistake and then corrected himself later on. The very last post in this thread is from pictureon who seems to know his Dishnet stuff:

"Fortec star dish works very good for echo9 @ 121. However you'll need a standard linear lnb. The fortec star universal lnb will no work. Also some dishnetwork receivers do not have the 121 satellite programmed. You might need to call dishnetwork to upgrade the software."

So it looks like you need a STANDARD LNB (which is still a linear LNB).

kat

[shrugy]

Thanks, bobkat.. this reaffirms that there is a difference between "universal" and "standard" linear LNBF. Anyone knows what this difference is, and where can one find a "standard" linear LNBF?

I would intuitively think that a "universal" LNBF is inclusive of the "standard" features, but obviously it isn't.

[bobkat]

Originally Posted by shrugy

I would intuitively think that a "universal" LNBF is inclusive of the "standard" features, but obviously it isn't.

Here is a thread where wejones gives the differences between the two:

---> http://sadoun.net/viewtopic.php?t=44...ight=universal

kat

[shrugy]

bobkat.. thank you for the link. I did more research on the subject, and putting things together, I'm coming up with the following reasoning, which I'm not sure if it explains everything:

The Dish receivers don't do voltage switching. They are always set to 18V. So they rely bandstacked switchless LNBF's to separate odd and even numbered transponders. However, Fortec LNBF requires switching. Since the receiver sends it 18V continuously, it will only switch on the 18V transponders, which are perhaps the even numbered transponders.

I'm new to this, but I think this argument is more convencing than than the "universal" vs. "standard" linear LNBF theory. However, my argument still doesn't anwer why I'm not getting higher numbered even transponders (12 to 32), and it will be completely invalid if even transponders are not associated with 18V.

If this argument turns out to be correct, then what I need is a bandstacked LNBF that would fit on my Forect dish. Does anyone sell such LNBF's, or are they only custom-made for Dish Network?

Sorry for the long message... Looks like only you is interested in this topic

[bobkat]

Dishnet receivers switch voltage. The old Legacy series does for sure. As for the new DishPro series maybe they don't; I've never worked with one. Why don't you just put up a separate dish for 121 and get a standard LNB or get the proper dish from Dishnetwork.

kat

[wejones]

Originally Posted by shrugy

bobkat.. thank you for the link. I did more research on the subject, and putting things together, I'm coming up with the following reasoning, which I'm not sure if it explains everything:

The Dish receivers don't do voltage switching. They are always set to 18V. So they rely bandstacked switchless LNBF's to separate odd and even numbered transponders. However, Fortec LNBF requires switching. Since the receiver sends it 18V continuously, it will only switch on the 18V transponders, which are perhaps the even numbered transponders.

I'm new to this, but I think this argument is more convencing than than the "universal" vs. "standard" linear LNBF theory. However, my argument still doesn't anwer why I'm not getting higher numbered even transponders (12 to 32), and it will be completely invalid if even transponders are not associated with 18V.

If this argument turns out to be correct, then what I need is a bandstacked LNBF that would fit on my Forect dish. Does anyone sell such LNBF's, or are they only custom-made for Dish Network?

Sorry for the long message... Looks like only you is interested in this topic

I don't think it is a matter of "interest", but that no-one knows the answer. I think you're on the right track though with respect to the bandstacking stuff. I suggest that you go over to the SatForum forum, ie http://forums.satforums.com/SatForum...php?webtag=mpg
Do a search there, possibly using superdish as a keyword, or whatever the name is for the other type of Dishnet dish. There were a couple discussions there about how the switching worked on the Dishnet dishes. It was quite complicated for the circular sats, and introducing the linear 121 sat into the fray probably makes it even more complicated. I don't think that the thread I remember addressed the 121 sat, but if you can find that thread, you might respond to the thread asking this question there, because there were some people there who had the dish hardware and were experimenting on it, and they might be able to answer your questions. I don't have a Dishnet dish or I would try experimenting with it. My neighbor has one, but I don't think he would appreciate me playing with it. I think my neighbor's dish has separate lines from the 2 circular lnbfs and the linear lnbf, so it would be easy to experiment by "T-ing" off the coax off the linear, to see if there is any magic going on with shifting freqs via unusual LO freqs or something, but even if you figure it out, it may be difficult to get the dishnet receiver to work with a regular lnbf.
Good luck. If you figure it out, post the results.

[bobkat]

shrugy:

Here is another site with all kinds of Echostar technical information:

---> http://ekb.dbstalk.com/

kat

[shrugy]

Originally Posted by bobkat

Dishnet receivers switch voltage. The old Legacy series does for sure. As for the new DishPro series maybe they don't; I've never worked with one. Why don't you just put up a separate dish for 121 and get a standard LNB or get the proper dish from Dishnetwork.

kat

It appears that the only proper dish for the 121 is the SuperDish. So one needs to buy an expensive big dish for 3 satellites even if only wants to get the 121. I thought that there is a better alternative which I didn't know about, but obviously there is isn't.

[bobkat]

Maybe Dishnetwork has a promotion going whereby if you subscribe to the International package on 121 they give you the dish for free or almost free. Bell ExpressVu does this in Canada all the time with their HD package. Heck they even install it for you free. Ask Sadoun; he's a Dishnetwork dealer.

kat