Lifetime Ultra and 4:2:2 decoding?

[dblackia]

There are several feeds from NBC, CBS, etc. (sorry, don't recall which sats) that are listed on lyngsat as being in MPEG-2 4:2:2 color format. I can pick them up but the receiver shows garbage on the screen and squeaks for audio.

Has anyone considered asking Fortec about them doing a firmware update so they can correctly decode 4:2:2 video stream, either by fully decoding or 'downconverting' to 4:2:0 simply by discarding color info on every other scan line? I'm willing but wanted to ask the forum first.

This would give access to some very good picture quality feeds that we cannot currently see. 8)

I'm using a Lifetime Ultra with the latest 2.39 NTSC firmware.

[dtsexpert]

This is hardware limitation issue, can't be "fix" with upgrading firmware like you thought. Forect hardware is not able to decode 4:2:2
If you are really interested in 4:2:2, you have few choices:
I rank the chepeast to most expensive approach:
1. Use a DVB card with PC (1.2G or faster). Using a right codec filter (like Elecard), you will be able to view 4:2:2 feeds, off course on your monitor. Some folks use a graphic card with S-video output to TV, but don't expect to get good picture quality.
2. Get a DVB card and a 4:2:2 decoder card such as STradis (you can find more info about this card at www.stradis.com). The list price of STradis is $1200 and up. But you might get an used one at $350-$400. Basically, the DVB card will tune to a channel and pipe the stream to the Stradis card for decoding. Excellent picture.
3. Get a commercial receiver which can decode 4:2:2. This is the most expensive. Few thoundsands of dollars each.
Michael

Originally Posted by dblackia

There are several feeds from NBC, CBS, etc. (sorry, don't recall which sats) that are listed on lyngsat as being in MPEG-2 4:2:2 color format. I can pick them up but the receiver shows garbage on the screen and squeaks for audio.

Has anyone considered asking Fortec about them doing a firmware update so they can correctly decode 4:2:2 video stream, either by fully decoding or 'downconverting' to 4:2:0 simply by discarding color info on every other scan line? I'm willing but wanted to ask the forum first.

This would give access to some very good picture quality feeds that we cannot currently see. 8)

I'm using a Lifetime Ultra with the latest 2.39 NTSC firmware.

[dblackia]

Oh, I see - the MPEG decoder chip's microcode is neither itself upgradable nor part of the system firmware load. Do you know which chip it is?

A few years down the road, once HDTV becomes more mainstream, I'm expecting some set-top boxes will have the ability to downconvert to formats viewable via analog composite or S-video - just to support 'legacy' analog equipment.

[dtsexpert]

Reading the specs:
Main proccessor: STi5518 ST20 32 bit CPU
Profile Level: MPEG-2 MP@ML
422P@ML was designed by Sony as I know. Cost per 4:2:2 chip is still expensive. If you can live with "watching TV on the monitor", then getting a DVB card is the best choice. If you are looking for watching 4:2:2 on TV with high quality, then a Stradis card is a way to go. If you have $ to burn, then a commercial receiver is the best.
Are you expecting to convert analog receiver for HD? No, impossible.
Michael

Originally Posted by dblackia

Oh, I see - the MPEG decoder chip's microcode is neither itself upgradable nor part of the system firmware load. Do you know which chip it is?

A few years down the road, once HDTV becomes more mainstream, I'm expecting some set-top boxes will have the ability to downconvert to formats viewable via analog composite or S-video - just to support 'legacy' analog equipment.

[dblackia]

No, not expecting to convert a low-end receiver to downconvert HD. It's not essential I receive 4:2:2 standard def. video either - just wanted to explore the possibility. I know it's computationally expensive to decode HDTV streams. 4:2:2 is still standard def (720x480 NTSC) though but with a greater color space. With access to the stream data, I believe with some relatively simple manipulation a 4:2:2 stream could be altered and decoded as 4:2:0.

An analog example of a similar technique is "quasi-SVHS" playback now available even on many low-end VHS VCRs. It's *not* full SVHS but at least they can play a SVHS tape, albeit only with VHS quality.

Receivers such as the Lifetime Ultra have a relatively low (compute) power main CPU to handle control and OSD/user interface functions - doesn't it run at something like 80 MHz? I'd actually forgotten that when first posting the question. More likely there is another chip doing the MPEG video and audio decoding, possibly integrated with the video buffer memory and DAC. Some of those dedicated decoder chips have uploadable microcode - it depends on the mfr. and model. For instance, the chip on my Hollywood Plus PC MPEG decoder card (also known as Creative DXR-3) requires a microcode upload as part of its initialization.

4:2:2 is different alright, but still basically an MPEG-2 video stream, and IIRC that color space, along with the more standard 4:2:0, are defined as part of the MPEG video spec. Need to check that out though, esp. since you mention it being Sony's creation and therefore possibly proprietary and specs not generally available.

[dtsexpert]

Check out the link below for more info about DVB stream:
http://www.coolstf.com/
Click at Mpeg2 section.
Michael

Originally Posted by dblackia

No, not expecting to convert a low-end receiver to downconvert HD. It's not essential I receive 4:2:2 standard def. video either - just wanted to explore the possibility. I know it's computationally expensive to decode HDTV streams. 4:2:2 is still standard def (720x480 NTSC) though but with a greater color space. With access to the stream data, I believe with some relatively simple manipulation a 4:2:2 stream could be altered and decoded as 4:2:0.

An analog example of a similar technique is "quasi-SVHS" playback now available even on many low-end VHS VCRs. It's *not* full SVHS but at least they can play a SVHS tape, albeit only with VHS quality.

Receivers such as the Lifetime Ultra have a relatively low (compute) power main CPU to handle control and OSD/user interface functions - doesn't it run at something like 80 MHz? I'd actually forgotten that when first posting the question. More likely there is another chip doing the MPEG video and audio decoding, possibly integrated with the video buffer memory and DAC. Some of those dedicated decoder chips have uploadable microcode - it depends on the mfr. and model. For instance, the chip on my Hollywood Plus PC MPEG decoder card (also known as Creative DXR-3) requires a microcode upload as part of its initialization.

4:2:2 is different alright, but still basically an MPEG-2 video stream, and IIRC that color space, along with the more standard 4:2:0, are defined as part of the MPEG video spec. Need to check that out though, esp. since you mention it being Sony's creation and therefore possibly proprietary and specs not generally available.