New FTA Installation

[MrBillM]

Awhile back, I purchased a motorized system from Sadoun. Fortec 90cm dish, HH motor, Mercury II receiver. Since setting it up (at 30.6N / 114.7W), I have been able to find NO signal via the receiver. My pole mount is plumb. I have verified that the mount is set to True South. The setup on the HH Rotor sets to the latitude (in my case 30.6 North), the instructions then say to set the antenna according to the declination table. 30 deg - declination. 5 deg on the table so the antenna is set to 25 deg. I have swapped LNBs, I have swapped RG-6 feed, even bypassing the HH after rotating to the recommended satellite. I have manually rotated the unit through an elevation range while pointed at 119 west. No signal level or quality registered on receiver. I do not have a Satellite meter, but have one on the way from Sadoun. Since I have setup numerous Dish Network, DirecTV and C-Band units over the years, I assumed I would find nothing difficult about this. I was wrong. I'm "assuming" (always dangerous) that I may have a receiver problem, but I'm open to any ideas.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by MrBillM

Awhile back, I purchased a motorized system from Sadoun. Fortec 90cm dish, HH motor, Mercury II receiver. Since setting it up (at 30.6N / 114.7W), I have been able to find NO signal via the receiver. My pole mount is plumb. I have verified that the mount is set to True South. The setup on the HH Rotor sets to the latitude (in my case 30.6 North), the instructions then say to set the antenna according to the declination table. 30 deg - declination. 5 deg on the table so the antenna is set to 25 deg. I have swapped LNBs, I have swapped RG-6 feed, even bypassing the HH after rotating to the recommended satellite. I have manually rotated the unit through an elevation range while pointed at 119 west. No signal level or quality registered on receiver. I do not have a Satellite meter, but have one on the way from Sadoun. Since I have setup numerous Dish Network, DirecTV and C-Band units over the years, I assumed I would find nothing difficult about this. I was wrong. I'm "assuming" (always dangerous) that I may have a receiver problem, but I'm open to any ideas.

Normally the odds are 500:1 against it being faulty equipment. Usually it's just a case of not being aimed right, and or having the wrong settings in the receiver. However you say that you get "no signal level"??? Usually you get signal level even if aimed at the ground. This suggests something is wrong with the hookup or hardware. It could be that LNBF voltage is turned off, or you're going through a switch that isn't working or a bad lnbf or bad receiver. However before concluding that, you need to say what settings you have in your receiver, and what lnbf you have. The angles you quote seem close enough to give you something, provided that you haven't entered the latitude on an elevation scale on your motor. But even if you did, you should still see signal level.
So what settings are you using? Ie LNBF type, LO freq. What transponder are you looking for on what sat? (Your longitude puts you in an area where choice of sat/transponder might be an issue.)

[elgemcdlf]

Assuming you have your settings correct raise the dish 5 degrees and try again. The 90cm Fortec dishes are good for being off 5 degrees. I am curious to know how you verified you are lined up on true south if you have no signal. That would indicate to me you are not aligned on true south

[rainman]

also to add to what Steve said about the 90cm dish being off by 5 degrees mine had to be 5 degrees lower. also as Bill stated make sure the lnb power is turned on in the receiver. my Mercury was off when I got it thus no signal.

[MrBillM]

Actually, I lined it up as I have every other antenna using a digital fluxgate compass.

Everything says I should be close. When pointed at Echostar 7, it appears to be at the same elevation and azimuth as the Dish antenna 10 feet away and very close to the Hughesnet antenna to the other side. I am on the correct scale for the HH motor. One side is Latitude. The other side is the complement elevation angle. I will try uping the elevation five degrees.

As I had stated, I swapped LNBs and even ran a different stretch of RG-6 directly from the LNB to the receiver. No luck.

As far as the LNB settings, the initial setup menu for the Mercury II defaults to the "univ" LNB which I have.

Thanks

[bigzboss]

this culd have een my post.i dont wnt to hiack your thrad butthe only diff is i get signal but very lo signal on all sats no quality.i tried everything you have an nothing.i havedone this before so im not knw, but first time ith a motor.can someone help him (me hahahahah)

[wejones]

Originally Posted by MrBillM

Actually, I lined it up as I have every other antenna using a digital fluxgate compass.

Everything says I should be close. When pointed at Echostar 7, it appears to be at the same elevation and azimuth as the Dish antenna 10 feet away and very close to the Hughesnet antenna to the other side. I am on the correct scale for the HH motor. One side is Latitude. The other side is the complement elevation angle. I will try uping the elevation five degrees.

As I had stated, I swapped LNBs and even ran a different stretch of RG-6 directly from the LNB to the receiver. No luck.

As far as the LNB settings, the initial setup menu for the Mercury II defaults to the "univ" LNB which I have.

Thanks

Digital fluxgate or not, compasses aren't that accurate close to the ground where there can be local variations, such as caused by the dish itself. Also, not likely, but is it possible that the digital compass has a setting for true vs magnetic? I think some GPSs have those things built in, and you can read headings in either mode. So perhaps you're correcting for magnetic deviation when the correction is already applied? You might check your true south using the sun.

That aside though, I'm still confused that you aren't seeing any signal level. These sat receivers generally give mid scale signal level readings even when not aimed at a sat, unless there is a break in the coax or a dead lnbf or something.

Also, you still haven't indicated what sat, freq and SR you are tuned to when looking for a signal. If you're trying to tune to an inactive frequency, then you'll never get a quality reading, but you should get a signal level, but if you're trying to tune to a completely out of range freq, like a C-band freq, then the receiver might not even try, and that might be why you get no signal level.

[MrBillM]

Believe me, True South is NOT a factor. I have lined up a lot of sat antennas. This is my first experience with FTA, though. My compass is very accurate and I have allowed for variation, in my case 12 degrees East (-).
Added to that, as I say, one of my Dish 500 antennas is just to the East and my Direcway (Hughes Net) on 117W is just to the west of the Fortec Antenna, giving a rough indicator that I'm in the correct area. I have sighted the antenna with the compass up close and from a distance. No question about True South.

As far as the signal level/quality bars, when I said there was NO indicator, that was not exactly true. They usually show a 0-4 percent, but they indicate that no matter where they're pointed so I dismiss it as background or system noise. It never rises above that.

I'm unsure where there is a spot to turn off or on the LNB on the Mercury II. Please explain. All I've done is set the receiver to defaults and used the initial setup built-in to the receiver. I have also rotated the unit to various other satellite "supposed" locations without any success. As a final test, I set the whole thing to Zero and manually rotated the antenna to the proper Azimuth and Elevation for Echostar 7 (119W) which is the closet satellite to due south in my area. 188T(176M) / 55. No luck at all.

[elgemcdlf]

If you do not have your true south sat you will not have any other. Providing you have line of sight to your true south sat everything else keys from that point. You are doing nothing more than wasting time looking for anything else until you have true south resolved. You have not stated that you have tried raising and lowering the dish. You also have not posted what your settings are in your receiver. You are asking for help and then responding with "that can not be it". All of us responding have been in your shoes & we all have operational systems. Some of us have multiple. First bit of advice: Do not assume anything. Second bit of advice: Read and follow what is suggested to you. After all if everything is perfect you then have watchable tv. We all go through this step by step.

We all are also most likely very far away from you so must rely upon you to fulfill our requests accurately when dealing with your system. Be it Bill, myself, Rainman or anyone else here we will do our best to guide you to the point of signal but you must be willing to follow.

[MrBillM]

I am always grateful for any information proffered and have been given a few new things to look into when I am again at home in Baja where the antenna is.
It appears that I am being chastised for dismissing the recurrent references to the initial "True South" Zero point for the Antenna/HH Motor alignment. The only reason I have done so is that I have satisfied myself that "True South" has been determined and CANNOT be a factor in this installation.
The problem will be eventually determined via trial and error and thanks to hints from others, but that answer won't be the "True South" Alignment. Possibly the antenna elevation (?). It was mentioned by someone else that their experience with the Fortec found it about 5 degrees off from the setup table. I have brought North the receiver in the hope of finding someone in the area with a facility to test and so I can tinker with the Setup menus and get more familiar with the options. I have also bought an LNB signal strength meter for use upon my return to Baja next week. There IS an answer.

Thanks for the comments.

[elgemcdlf]

If you have no signal when pointed at your true south sat you more often than not are not pointed at true south. This is not Dish Network. The signal strength is far weaker and requires a far finer touch than just throwing it up in place. 1/8" will cause no signal. Actually less than that will do it. Movement must be very slow or you will move in and out of the signal before the receiver has a chance to catch up. Recomendation is 5 seconds between moves. Personally I like the squeelers for locating signal. Once locked with one of them I then hunt with the receiver as I know I am very close to something. Once I get a lock I scan the sat to see what I have and compare it to charts to tell me what sat I am actually pointed at. Adjust from there.

Everyone here has stories about the first setup. Experienced C Banders, DN installers, DTV installers. It is a different animal while still the same. Many think it is a bad lnbf and some a bad receiver while it usually ends up being bad settings. Out of all I have read there was only 1 who actually had a bad dish and even he managed to find signal with it.

If you do not have Net access where you are installing the dish you will just have to hunt. Move very very slow.

[lumpkin666]

MrBillM, I think you may be misinterpreting what was being discussed. Generally we tend to "shortcut" descriptions based on common terminology. I don't think that there is much doubt that you can determine your true south direction. The issues is with your "True South", meaning the satellite that is in your true south location. Without first obtaining a decent signal from this (normally the easiest satellite to obtain a signal from), it becomes more difficult (or so some believe).

Indeed, the issue with receiving your True South satellite may be either a compass heading, an elevation issue, a skew issue, line of site, who knows.. but your True South satellite should still be pretty easy, and should be the first satellite to attempt when you're having trouble (unless you have a circular lnb, and there is a nearby circular sat, which has much higher powered signals to find).

[MrBillM]

As I said at the beginning, when I initially couldn't pick up a signal using the standard setup, I then concentrated my efforts on the probable alignment for Echostar 7 since it is very close to due South at my location (188.4 True), but no luck. I didn't see any physical reason the FTA wouldn't recognize Echostar 7, although the channels would be encrypted, I should have still gotten a signal indicator.

As I had brought the receiver North, it occurred to me this p.m. to simply take my Motor Home portable 18" Dish antenna on its RV tripod, set it up on Echostar 7 (119W) and plug in. After 30 seconds or so aiming the Dish, I fired it up and got an 80 level/quality on the Mercury II receiver. Ran through the scan. All OK. Encrypted, of course. Another 30 seconds, moved it to Echostar 6/8. Scanned. Found 5 TV channels (Dish promos) and a whole bunch of radio channels. Tested my luck by going to Galaxy 10R @ 123W. Found it, but couldn't get above the 30s-40s on quality, less on level. Probably Dish size or the fact that I hadn't altered the Elevation.

So, Receiver Okey-Dokey. Makes me think more than ever that it's an Elevation problem. Next week, armed with a Sat Meter, I'll continue the battle. Like everything else, it will seem simple once the answer is found.

Thanks.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by MrBillM

As I said at the beginning, when I initially couldn't pick up a signal using the standard setup, I then concentrated my efforts on the probable alignment for Echostar 7 since it is very close to due South at my location (188.4 True), but no luck. I didn't see any physical reason the FTA wouldn't recognize Echostar 7, although the channels would be encrypted, I should have still gotten a signal indicator.

As I had brought the receiver North, it occurred to me this p.m. to simply take my Motor Home portable 18" Dish antenna on its RV tripod, set it up on Echostar 7 (119W) and plug in. After 30 seconds or so aiming the Dish, I fired it up and got an 80 level/quality on the Mercury II receiver. Ran through the scan. All OK. Encrypted, of course. Another 30 seconds, moved it to Echostar 6/8. Scanned. Found 5 TV channels (Dish promos) and a whole bunch of radio channels. Tested my luck by going to Galaxy 10R @ 123W. Found it, but couldn't get above the 30s-40s on quality, less on level. Probably Dish size or the fact that I hadn't altered the Elevation.

So, Receiver Okey-Dokey. Makes me think more than ever that it's an Elevation problem. Next week, armed with a Sat Meter, I'll continue the battle. Like everything else, it will seem simple once the answer is found.

Thanks.

you stated above you tried 5 degrees higher try 5 degrees lower as my fortec 90 had to be aligned 5 degrees lower instead of 25 degree dish elevation try 20 degree dish elevation then move the dish east and west to see if you get a signal. as Steve stated above very slow small adjustments I even marked the pole and mount so I could see how far I have moved. always wait 5 to 10 seconds between each move for the receiver to see the changes.

[MrBillM]

Manually moving the elevation is probably where I screwed up. Being used to seeing an immediate result when moving DBS antennas, I may not have allowed enough time for a receiver response. At the time, I was out at the antenna with a two-way radio and my wife was next door inside looking at the receiver.

After verifying my settings, I'll try the elevation again and allow it time at any given setting.

Thanks