Fortec Star 90cm, Mercury II Install problems

[brianz]

I'm very new to this so I apologize in advance if I'm asking dumb questions.

I just bought the Fortec Star 90cm dish, Mercury II receiver, SG2100 motor, ULN1 LNB as a package. I went through the Tips and Tricks and Installation instructions following them to the best of my ability. I was actually pleasantly surprised that everything appeared good, level, etc when I finished. I hooked up the receiver and had it position to a satellite. The dish moved like it should but the signal strength and quality just bounced around 2-3%. I went through the troubleshooting, rotated the whole assembly by a few degrees at a time, then changed the dish elevation a few degrees at a time with no change in the meter. I decided to change out my cables in case there was a problem there and then ran through the troubleshooting again with no change. I then connected the LNB directly to the receiver (after it was positioned) just to eliminate the motor as a possibility, same result. Then I noticed when the LNB was completely disconnected I was still getting the same 2-3% readings. Maybe I'm wrong but I would expect to get some percent (15-20%?) by moving the dish around even if I didn't have the alignment just right. Am I wrong in that?

Is it possible there is a problem with the LNB right out of the box. That is the only thing I can think of. I've spent many frustrating hours working on this so I would welcome any suggestions.

Thanks,
Brian

[elgemcdlf]

Your dish is either 5 degrees to low or 5 to high. You need to find your true south sat first before anything else. That is the sat located at yoru longitude. Or the nearest one to that. I do not remember which way the dish is off but try one then the other. Once you have your true south sat aligned and peaked you should be able to see a bit more. Everyone new thinks the lnbf is bad when they can not find signal. You need to move very slowly when adjusting and in very small increments.

[brianz]

Thanks for the info. I tried what you said. I am at 72.5 W so I set the receiver to AMC 6 at 72 W. I then tried raising and lowering in < 1 degree increments to + and - 7 or so degrees. I also at several increments tried moving the dish side to side in very small increments moving probably 20 degree each way in case my true south was off. I still have not seen a signal more than 4%.

I've spent probably 4+ hours after I thought I was properly setup trying to get a signal and am about ready to just rip the whole thing down and toss it in the garbage. I know its probably different but I've set up a direct tv dish before (no motor) and it took maybe 10 minutes to align and tune it in to get a good signal.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Brian

[wejones]

There is probably 1 chance in 500 that there is some problem with your LNBF or receiver. If you'd read the posts here, you'd see that there are many many people with the same symptoms, who think their lnbf is bad, but eventually they figure it out. DTV/Dishnet systems are easy to aim because they are strong sats, and the receiver is already set up for the freq/SR and LO values required to recieve those sats. As Steve said, you have to find your south sat. But to find any sat, you have to have your receiver set up to match the LO freq of your LNBF, and you have to have the receiver set up to be looking at transponders known to be active on that sat. The default transponders on receivers are often obsolete, and if you don't have all the parameters right, you won't see anything. So the question for you, is how have you set up your receiver, re LO freq, and what satellite, transponder and SR value are you looking for?

[brianz]

Originally Posted by wejones

There is probably 1 chance in 500 that there is some problem with your LNBF or receiver. If you'd read the posts here, you'd see that there are many many people with the same symptoms, who think their lnbf is bad, but eventually they figure it out. DTV/Dishnet systems are easy to aim because they are strong sats, and the receiver is already set up for the freq/SR and LO values required to recieve those sats. As Steve said, you have to find your south sat. But to find any sat, you have to have your receiver set up to match the LO freq of your LNBF, and you have to have the receiver set up to be looking at transponders known to be active on that sat. The default transponders on receivers are often obsolete, and if you don't have all the parameters right, you won't see anything. So the question for you, is how have you set up your receiver, re LO freq,

I had picked the predefined setting that matched my LNBF (9.75 - 10.6 GHz)

Originally Posted by wejones

and what satellite, transponder and SR value are you looking for?

I am looking at AMC 6 72.0 W, I did realize the default transponder was obsolete and changed to a valid one (4040 V26665), my signal went up to 7% or so but it stays pretty constantly at the level when I move the dish side to side and change the elevation. I was not able to see any changes that would lead me to being able to pinpoint the location. Nothing ever moved above 9%.

[pmb1010]

no you cant use those.
The 4 digit numbers are C band.
You only have Ku band reception capability.
So you need to use the 5 digit transponder numbers.
This one will be the one to use on 72W, it is very strong:

12144 V
tp 23Gospel Broadcasting NetworkDVB2573-3/4
33

[brianz]

Thanks for the tip, I was wondering about that but with that one I'm back to 2-3% signal everywhere I adjust it.

A couple general questions if you don't mind.

Do you expect to see almost nothing and then a sudden spike as you are making adjustments to get a satellite? I was more expecting to see some slight changes that would give me some indication that I was moving in the right direction but I see no change no matter how many small adjustments I make.

On the motor (SG2100) I had initially assumed that the latitude setting was done based on the small nitch on the side of the washer but now am wondering (and tried with no better results) setting it based on the nice flat bottom edge or the washer. Which way is the correct way to set it?

Thanks,
Brian

[bill190]

The signal meter on your receiver will ONLY show a reading if you are pointed at a specific satellite and have an active FTA frequency selected/entered, and have the proper L.O. for your LNB entered, etc.

A coax attached signal meter will show a reading for ANY satellite.

So it is MUCH easier to first use a coax attached signal meter to find where the satellites are, then work from there to find a specific satellite and enter an active FTA frequency for that satellite.

Then after that, work on getting a reading on your receiver signal meter.

Here is one for $14...
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/A...gnal-meter.htm

Also some satellites have weak signals. Like Galaxy 10R. To get a reading on my receiver for this satellite (assuming I have an active FTA frequency entered AND am pointing at this specific satellite), I need to have my dish pointing at a point in the sky about the size of this ---> O

However with the coax attached signal meter adjusted to sensitive, I can point my dish to an area about the size of a golf ball and get a reading on the meter for this sat!

So when using the RECEIVER signal meter, there may be only one point in the sky the size of this "O" which will give you a reading on the receiver meter.

When using a coax attached signal meter, there are 40 or 50 spots in the sky the size of golf balls (baseball size for strong sats) which will give you a reading.

So when using a coax attached signal meter, basically you can set the dish the best you can to the proper elevation. Then move it east/west and see if you gat any readings. Then adjust elevation up a little and try again. Keep going up and back and forth. If that does not get it, then go back to beginning and try down a little at a time. You will quickly find where the satellites are located in the sky.

Then you can adjust your arc so the dish gets all the satellites in the arc. Then try finding a specific satellite. Then ask more questions here.

The frequencies change and what is listed on lyngsat.com may no longer work. We can go look at our receivers and give you an FTA frequency/polarity/symbol rate which is working right now today and getting a strong reading for a specific satellite.

[rainman]

with the 90cm dish drop the elevation by 5 degrees the when moving the dish east or west move it a 1/16 th of a inch at a time also allow 15 seconds for the receiver signal and quality meter to see the change. remember slow small movements and you will find it. after you find the sat then i recommend the sat meter to peak the signal.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by brianz

Thanks for the tip, I was wondering about that but with that one I'm back to 2-3% signal everywhere I adjust it.

A couple general questions if you don't mind.

Do you expect to see almost nothing and then a sudden spike as you are making adjustments to get a satellite? I was more expecting to see some slight changes that would give me some indication that I was moving in the right direction but I see no change no matter how many small adjustments I make.

On the motor (SG2100) I had initially assumed that the latitude setting was done based on the small nitch on the side of the washer but now am wondering (and tried with no better results) setting it based on the nice flat bottom edge or the washer. Which way is the correct way to set it?

Thanks,
Brian

Re the sudden vs gradual changes, you may see somewhat gradual changes in signal strength, however signal strength isn't all that meaningful, since it is a measure of other sats and noise, not just the sat you're looking for. The quality indication however tends to be sudden. With most receivers, it will be pretty much zero until you are on the sat, then it jumps up to 50 or something suddenly when you get a lock. Basically, you don't get quality until you have a lock.

Re the latitude setting and the washer, what I found was :



However, make sure that you are entering latitude on the "Latitude" scale, not the Elevation scale. It will be 90-lat on the Elevation scale. You might find some additional info at http://eskerridge.com/bj/FC90-sg2100.html where I have some pictures of the 90cm/SG2100. I have the pole mount for the dish, and it was fairly accurate re angles, however if you have the U-bolt mount, many have found it to be off by the 5 deg that was mentioned.
The key, when looking for your south sat is to make very slow adjustments. Have your tv showing the S/Q meter out at the dish, and with the dish aimed true south, make slow adjustments and WAIT several seconds for the meters to respond, because sometimes it takes 5 or 10 seconds to get a response. If you don't find the signal +/- 5 deg from your initial setting, your south azimuth is probably off. You can find this quite accurately using the sun. If you use a hand held meter, it will probably lead you to one of the strong Echostar or Nimiq sats, and you'll probably have to look for your lock between the strong sats it finds.

[brianz]

I appreciate all the input but I still seem to be getting nowhere. I just spent another hour+ making minute adjustments, waiting, repeating. I took a couple of pictures of it, maybe I just have it setup wrong. If you can point out any problems I'd appreciate it.








Thanks,
Brian

[wejones]

Originally Posted by brianz

I appreciate all the input but I still seem to be getting nowhere. I just spent another hour+ making minute adjustments, waiting, repeating. I took a couple of pictures of it, maybe I just have it setup wrong. If you can point out any problems I'd appreciate it....

Three things.
1) You might try sliding the lnbf back in it's holder.
2) It sure looks like the pole your motor is on, isn't plumb, although that could be an optical illusion.
3) It sure looks like your dish elevation is too low. Although the picture may have been taken when you were adjusted 5 deg less than the theoretical setting. Assuming that your latitude is around 42 (looks like that where the motor is set), then your dish elevation should be somewhere between 24 and 25 degrees. It looks like you are down around 25-30 range.

[brianz]

Originally Posted by wejones

Three things.
1) You might try sliding the lnbf back in it's holder.

OK, thanks, I did that.

Originally Posted by wejones

2) It sure looks like the pole your motor is on, isn't plumb, although that could be an optical illusion.

I just checked again and its good, must be the angle of the picture or something.

Originally Posted by wejones

3) It sure looks like your dish elevation is too
low. Although the picture may have been taken when you were adjusted 5 deg less than the theoretical setting. Assuming that your latitude is around 42 (looks like that where the motor is set), then your dish elevation should be somewhere between 24 and 25 degrees. It looks like you are down around 25-30 range.

It was set around 20-22 in the picture I think, I've been running through the range of 18 - 30 or so at various times. (My initial setting was around 23-24 I think)

After adjusting the LNBF in its holder I ran it back and forth at very small intervals again and tried different elevation settings ranging from 20 - 28 or so. Still can't find anything.

I do get occasional spikes on quality usually 2-5 seconds or so after I move it but it goes right back down. I don't know if that is normal or indicates that I am close but I can never narrow down on anything around where that happens.

Would a coax signal meter be more useful for finding the satellite than the meters on the receiver? Do they react more quickly to changes in the signal? I think there is a DirectTV satellite very close to AMC 6. If I could narrow down on that, then switch to the receiver meter to get AMC 6?

Thanks
Brian

[pmb1010]

some have luck with coax signal meter, some dont.
The receivers quality indicator is really the bottom line about getting a workable signal in the end.

What is your zip code? I looked back at the posts, didnt see it. Want to calculate your heading values to make sure you are doing the basics right.

Also, make sure you have your coax plugged into "LNB IN" (not antenna).

You need to:
calculate your "true south" heading based on your location, put the motor at zero, and adjust the whole motor on the pole to your magnetically compensated true south heading. Use a good compass to find this setting.
If you can, walk away from your dish and use the compass to look back at your dish and make sure the LNB arm is pointing at your true south heading.
From there, using USALS have the motor drive to AMC 6 72W, and pick active transponder for gospel channel. Motor wont move much.
NOW you look for a signal. Dont move the motor on the pole too much, that should be very close. The dish setting is the one that will locate the signal for you. It is very tight adjustment. 1/8" dish movement will lose the signal.

Hope this helps.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by brianz

..
Would a coax signal meter be more useful for finding the satellite than the meters on the receiver? Do they react more quickly to changes in the signal? I think there is a DirectTV satellite very close to AMC 6. If I could narrow down on that, then switch to the receiver meter to get AMC 6?
..

The hand held meters can help you get close, but you really need the receiver's meter to find the right sat. Beginners using the meters will often only see the DBS sats, but after you get more experience, you can see some of the regular sats in between, but I've seen some sats that just don't show up at all with the little meters. But if you use it to find the nearby DBS sats, it will help you find the general area of the arc, then you can move east/west from that to find the sat you're looking for with the receiver's meter.