Fortec Star 90cm, Mercury II Install problems

[brianz]

Originally Posted by wejones

When I got my 90CM/SG2100 a year ago, I really wanted to find a way to use an inclinometer to set it up, so I tried to evaluate whether there was any surface on the dish that could be used in this way, but didn't find any surface. See: cPanel® ...

WooHoo!!!! I got it!

OK, I have to admit I'm a big idiot. When I was looking at the page on your site I noticed you describing the dish elevation settings and it didn't seem to match your picture (so I thought). Then in a huge DOH! moment I realized I was aligning it wrong. I was going off the center of the bolt for some reason not the nice straight, easy to read line. Oh well, hours wasted but at least I have a signal now.

So on my true south satellite I am getting about 65% - 70% on signal and quality. And I'm getting the Gospel channel in really nice. I have searched a bit and found a few other channels, mostly spanish language and Ohio Racing or something. I seem to not get the farther west satellites very well. I don't know if that means I'm not 100% plum, even though when I check it looks like I am. Or if that just means I need to peak things in a little better. Its raining tonight too so I don't know if that might make a difference on weaker satellites.

Are there any particular satellites that I should look for to the west (110+W) that have good signal strength?

I did a little exploring tonight but like I said didn't find much.

Thanks again everyone for all the help!

Brian

[brianz]

Alright, I've found Galaxy 25 and 28 which were not predefined in the receiver so I am getting a fair amount now. Still a lot of foreign language but thats kind of cool.

Is it normal to have to tweak the setup of the satellites a bit? I had to adjust a couple by about a degree or 2 from where they say they are.

Thanks again, I think I am thoroughly hooked on this and won't be sleeping much for a few days!!!!

Brian

[elgemcdlf]

No you should not have to adjust for preset settings if you are using USALS. If your motor does not land on the correct spot you are not aligned properly. Either on true south or a combination elevation / declination issue.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by brianz

WooHoo!!!! I got it!

Brian

congrats Brian no feeling like the one you get when you scan in that first sat.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

No you should not have to adjust for preset settings if you are using USALS. If your motor does not land on the correct spot you are not aligned properly. Either on true south or a combination elevation / declination issue.

See When USALS Won't Work

[bill190]

Originally Posted by brianz

...I just ordered a signal meter, inclinometer and a little bit better compass...

Since you will have these tools available, you can also learn to use an accurate dish pointing calculator which also figures in your site elevation above sea level. (I figure every little bit of additional accuracy helps with dish pointing.)

The pointing calculator below allows you to enter your latitude and longitude to the exact decimal place like 42.40049084178432. It looks like you can only enter 5 digits (like 42.400), but you can enter all the decimal places for latitude and longitude. You can also enter your elevation above sea level. Note this in in meters, not feet.

The first link below (earthtools) will give you your exact latitude and longitude for your location. Keep double clicking on map until you get to your exact location. As you get closer to your location, you may need to double click on the map and use the zoom in adjustment. Or may need to wait for the map to update. Anyway get the + right on where your house is located. Then on the left side, click on "Find Elevation/Height Above Sea Level" and it will give you your elevation above sea level in meters and feet. Copy the meters figure. Then click on "Location" and it will give you your exact latitude and longitude.

Then go to the dish pointing calculator below and enter your latitude, longitude, and elevation. Then click on your south pointing satellite. Then the calculator will give you Satellite Elevation. This is how high in the sky that satellite is from your location.

Then again you need to subtract your dish offset from this amount to get what the dish itself needs to be using the inclinometer. So if it says the satellite is 40 degrees high, subtract 24.62 from that amount and you get 15.38 degrees. This would be the angle the DISH itself should be. (Not the positioner, the DISH.)

You can hold the inclinometer the wrong way and get the wrong numbers. Straight up and down should be 0 degrees. And with the dish pointing straight up looking like a bird bath, it would be 90 degrees.

Then attach coax signal meter. You need to have your receiver powered on to give power to the signal meter. Adjust it for very sensitive.

Then move dish back and forth. As it finds satellites as you are moving it back and forth, it will beep and the needle will go up and down as it passes each satellite. If it is constantly beeping and the needle is pegged, it it set to too sensitive. Although it is possible you may have the dish pointed at a satellite right off the bat and it would be indicating this.

More likely you will need to adjust the dish a little higher (like 1 milimeter), then try back and forth again. Then higher and higher or lower and lower until you find the satellites. Should be pretty close though.

Note when first aiming a dish, I like to take my receiver and a small TV outside to my dish. Then I can use the remote to move the dish back and forth. And I can also see the receiver signal meter (Not much on this until I find the specific satellite it is set to.)


Exact latitude, longitude, and elevation above sea level....
http://www.earthtools.org

Accurate dish pointing calculator...
(Click on X to remove "Programmed by" screen.)
http://www.satellite-calculations.co...lookangles.htm

[bill190]

Never mind, I sse you found the sats!

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by wejones

See When USALS Won't Work

Read it Bill and disagree. If you can "bump" it into position you most likely have a problem with declination/elevation. While this "bump" may work for people looking at small sectors of the arc see what a "bump" does when you are 60 degrees from center.

If you would happen to be off by x degrees when the motor thought it was at center it would be irrelevant with USALS as your system would be adjusted to true south with the difference factored and USALS moves in relation to what it perceives as 0.


EDIT: Any offensive inaccuracies with center on 0 would reflect the same with USALS as would without.

Instead of all this "bump makes it right" mentality how about simply raising the dish elevation 1/4 degree or perhaps lowering the same amount. If one maps their path along the arc they can easily come to a conclusion as to what needs adjusted.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

Read it Bill and disagree. If you can "bump" it into position you most likely have a problem with declination/elevation. While this "bump" may work for people looking at small sectors of the arc see what a "bump" does when you are 60 degrees from center.

Doesn't matter at all how far off center. I'm getting all sats from center thru about 53 deg off center, and could go further if my garage wasn't in the way. USALS is off on all sats. Pull up/pull down techniques show I'm on the arc on all sats {as well as you can tell with the signal meters I have}, ie no improvement.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

If you would happen to be off by x degrees when the motor thought it was at center it would be irrelevant with USALS as your system would be adjusted to true south with the difference factored and USALS moves in relation to what it perceives as 0.

Well, I admit that you have a point there, and my brain is starting to overwork trying to visualize all this stuff again. However if you find your true south sat with the dish not at the top of it's arc, then you won't be in alignment. If you then go through whatever method you choose to get the system into alignment, then your dish will be centered when aiming south, however USALS will think that south is off center, and we'll be back to the out of sync situation. I'm going to have to think about this a bit more, but I'm still convinced that in this situation, that once you bring the system into alignment, you'll be out of sync. One way to think about it is to consider an EXTREME situation, ie say the motor is off by 30 deg to the east. If you find your true south using what the motor perceives as true south, then turn to the next sat to the west say, the dish will move higher in the sky, even though the true south sat is always highest. Ie the system is WAY out of alignment because you've had to use incorrect dish or motor elevations to reach that south sat. USALS may be correcting for the 30 degrees at this point, however after you have aligned the system properly, which will mean finding that true south sat when the dish is centered. Once aligned properly, you'll be following the arc properly, but you'll be seeing your true south sat some 30 deg west of where USALS thinks south is. {Not sure that was said clearly.} Basically, what I'm saying is that for proper alignment, your true south sat needs to have been found with the motor centered on it's true zero, however USALS will be calculating vs what the motor perceives as zero, and once properly aligned to the arc, will be sending the dish to a south sat that it perceives say as being 30 deg to the east, in my extreme example. {This hurts my head.}

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

EDIT: Any offensive inaccuracies with center on 0 would reflect the same with USALS as would without.

I don't think so. With DiseqC-1.2, once you have the mount aligned to the arc, you can save sat positions wherever you want, and they don't need to be relative to due south. USALS MUST be relative to due south, and if that is off, I think USALS will be off.

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

Instead of all this "bump makes it right" mentality how about simply raising the dish elevation 1/4 degree or perhaps lowering the same amount. If one maps their path along the arc they can easily come to a conclusion as to what needs adjusted.

If you can bump to make it right, then you are aligned properly. Period.
Of course, being out of alignment is always a possibility for why USALS gives incorrect positions, and if after peaking by bumping, you can still improve signal by lifting/pulling down, the you do need additional alignment. However if you bump to peak the signal, and then you can't improve the signal by pulling down, or lifting up, then it's more likely a case of being out of sync.

[brianz]

Originally Posted by wejones

{This hurts my head.}

Me too.

Well for the moment I'm content and tomorrow I'll be out all day. I might try changing the elevation slightly to see if I can improve things on Sunday but for now I'm getting some satellites and enjoying what I can get.

One question, I was interested in checking out al Jazeera and I see it listed on IA5/Galaxy25 (97.0W) but when I search for channels I get everything but al Jazeera. Any idea why?

Thanks
Brian

[rainman]

Originally Posted by brianz

Me too.

Well for the moment I'm content and tomorrow I'll be out all day. I might try changing the elevation slightly to see if I can improve things on Sunday but for now I'm getting some satellites and enjoying what I can get.

One question, I was interested in checking out al Jazeera and I see it listed on IA5/Galaxy25 (97.0W) but when I search for channels I get everything but al Jazeera. Any idea why?

Thanks
Brian

did you use the power scan it comes in fine on my mercury.make sure when you power scan you set it for detailed scan and 4.

[brianz]

Originally Posted by rainman

did you use the power scan it comes in fine on my mercury.make sure when you power scan you set it for detailed scan and 4.

Now I did.

And of course that did it.

Thanks

[rainman]

Originally Posted by brianz

Now I did.

And of course that did it.

Thanks

You are welcome glad to here you got it.

[Powrline]

I am looking at the picts again, and to me the arm looks just like mine, no kinks in the bend of the elbow. Granted, it may be bent slightly, but I look for clues as to what may actually be happening, and it looks "factory".

On the LNBF, I lined mine up with the seam in the holder where the top part of the clamp holds to the base. The picture Brian has taken shows that maybe the LNBF needs to be slid back, but to me it looks as if the seam in the LNBF lines up with the seam in the holder.

Thanks,
powrline