Starting All Over

[Jagee]

My Lat is 33.4 and my Long is 82.2 I am using a moteck H180 on a 6 foot fotrtecstar
dish.No adjustments on the dish just the motor for angle and one for declination.Im also using a BSC621-2 LNBF.Now would some one pretend they are at my place and help me with this setup.The ple according to my 3 levels are plump and also with an inclemeter.I have been trying for 3 month with this,Now the fun is starting to run out.i have a 31in fortecstar and it works fine.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Jagee

My Lat is 33.4 and my Long is 82.2 I am using a moteck H180 on a 6 foot fotrtecstar
dish.No adjustments on the dish just the motor for angle and one for declination....

I'm not familiar with how that dish connects to the motor. I remember Bibbler posted some pictures, but his setup was partly home-made, so I'm not sure what the connections look like out of the box.

But I assume that what is confusing you is the declination adjustment. Declination is the angle you have to tilt the dish down towards the southern horizon in order to aim at the sat, instead of parallel to the equator. For you, even though the Sadoun web page will say for you to use 5.4 deg, you should use 4.8 degrees as your declination. Small offset dishes don't have a declination adjustment, so you need to use a dish elevation bracket, which raises the dish in conjunction with the bend in the motor shaft, which lowers the dish, so that the sum of these two angles equals your declination. With a prime focus dish, there is a declination adjustment, however you'll probably need to use an inclinometer to set it properly.

You need to find two flat surfaces, one perpindicular to the aim of the dish (I think on Bibbler's picture there was a ring that he put his home made brackets on), and another surface which is parallel to the motor's axis. These two surfaces are what the declination adjustment varies. Aim the dish south, and put an inclinometer on both these surfaces. Subtract these two angles, and the difference should be 4.8. Also, the surface parallel to the motor axis should read 56 deg relative to the ground, or 34 deg relative to vertical (also 56 on a motor elevation scale or 34 on a latitude scale.. I'm not sure whether this motor has elevation, latitude or both scales).

With these adjustments, you should be able to make minor adjustments to the motor elevation and southerly aim, in order to find your due south satellite. After finding that, it's just a matter of going sat by sat to the west looking for other sats, and when you find them peak by rotating the whole mount on the pole, and by running the motor. Don't change the elevation/declination angles any more. I wouldn't actually save any sat until you have located and peaked sats far to your west, then work back east saving sat positions.

[Bibbler]

Originally Posted by wejones

I'm not familiar with how that dish connects to the motor. I remember Bibbler posted some pictures, but his setup was partly home-made, so I'm not sure what the connections look like out of the box.

He has to be doing something quite similar to what I have Bill since the 6' dish really has no way to connect to the motor out of the box...

Jagee, can you post us some pics so we can see how you have it set up

Again, here are mine for reference..

Photos

[Jagee]

Here is the pictures you ask for ski5010 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Jagee

Here is the pictures you ask for ski5010 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

OK, I remember now. Well, I think the way you should place inclinometers is like this:




Sorry for doctoring your picture....

Of course turn dish to highest position first. Notice I'm using surfaces that are approximately right angles from each other, but using different surfaces of the inclinomet to keep it's orientation the same.
Unless my mind is working backwards today, I think that measured this way, the inclinometer on the left should read 51, and the inclinometer at the right should read 56 (this assumes that zero is UP on the inclinometer, when on a flat surface). I'm also assuming that the surface at the right is perpindicular to the motor shaft, and the shaft doesn't stick up enough to make it not sit flat.

[Jagee]

Doctor away.Anything that will help me with this set up i will go and do this right now and get back with you later.

[Bibbler]

Lets work through this again...

I see nothing that looks out of place.. Functionally, it looks like mine.. I would set the elevation and declination as Bill describes above..

So lets work through this thing... Since you have a receiver on a small dish and are getting good results, I assume you have sats and channels programmed in... Why not do it this way...

Pick a strong TP that you are getting with your small dish. Go to it... Now shut everything down (kill the receiver with the switch in the back).... Hook up nothing but the BIG dish...

So now, the receiver is on the hot TP. Check your settings.... Should be, LNB Type UNI (if you indeed have a BSC621-2, for a BSC621 it should be set to 10750), DISEqC = 1, Change 22khz from Auto to On, now move the dish and find your channel (if you are somewhere close, you should be able to find it)...

This is of course not the preferred method of alignment, however at this point, let's see if we can get ANYTHING!! It will convince you that all the equipment is properly working (something that you begin to doubt after a long time. I did)......

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

In my case, I had the same problems as you, but only for a few hours. What I did was (another unorthodox method) hook up an Analog receiver and scan the sky. When I found a signal, I stopped and tuned the dish to it...

When I found something, I came here and asked where I was

Remember this thread? Hahahhahahaha

http://www.sadoun.net/forums/install...0755-lost.html

Don't get frustrated. You'll get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jagee]

Will the set up is what you are showing me,It looks almost as if the dish is at a 45% angle,Im tried aiming at amc7 with a compass cause as you know this motor doesn't work with usauls i spelled it wrong.So i have to move it manually.Thats the down side of this motor.Oh well.but i didn't get any transponders.Any idea to look for

[wejones]

In the picture the dish has been motored over to the west quite a bit. Run it back so that it is at it's highest position, facing south, set the angles as described, and try to find your south sat, ie Nimiq2 or AMC9 . I wouldn't mess with AMC7.

[Bibbler]

Originally Posted by Jagee

Thats the down side of this motor.Oh well.but i didn't get any transponders.Any idea to look for

When I was trying to tune in a sat, I took my lawn tractor out there and ran the dish off of the 12v battery.... The Vbox moves it pretty quick.... And 1 click at a time is ok for fine tuning, but painful for finding sats...

[Jagee]

Will i guess my problem was it wasn't pointing high enough cause i did stumble across 2 sats.Not sure which ones they are,I set the receiver for the name echo4 But it is not at that direction,Im getting a sig.of 70 and a quailty at 56 or so.That is on both of them. now What other adjustmants is there with out touching the 2 i already did.Man imagine 3 months of all this and i just had to go higher with my angle.wow wee one happy person,thankyou both.

[Bibbler]

You're going to have to touch them both if you want to get the thing to track.... 1st, lets figure out what the 2 sats you are seeing are..

What do u see on these birds??

[Jagee]

Ok this is what i found i beleive to be my true south.Cananda Here are a few of the channels i wrote down.Ill look them up in the Lyngsat.A&E A-LON A-LON A-VIC ALERT CTV-R CTV-V CTV-W ECRN GLBE SCRM.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Jagee

Ok this is what i found i beleive to be my true south.Cananda Here are a few of the channels i wrote down.Ill look them up in the Lyngsat.A&E A-LON A-LON A-VIC ALERT CTV-R CTV-V CTV-W ECRN GLBE SCRM.

Sounds like it may be one of the Nimiqs, however, it would help if you included freq and SR values. Also, the last time I checked, Lyngsat would be of little help on the Nimiq sats. There was a completely different channel lineup than what was listed on Lyngsat, ie things were on different transponders, etc. That, however was several months ago, so Lyngsat may have been updated since. But if the freqs are above 12200, and have Canadian programming, then it's probably one of the Nimiqs.

If you post freq/sr, I'll check later today.

[bill190]

Ok, you need to use a coax attached signal meter to adjust the arc on your dish. The signal meter on your dish will only show a reading for the one specific satellite you have selected and only if the frequency is active and FTA! A coax attached signal meter will show a reading for any satellite C or Ku (depending on which LNB you have itr attached to).

Once you find a south satellite, then move dish east/west to the last sat the meter finds. Then see if your dish (arc) needs to go up or down to get a better signal for that sat...

At the bottom of the following web page is a diagram of the arc and how you can be off slightly with dish adjustments.

Footprints by Dish Size - Adjusting the Polar Mount for Prime Focus Antenna - C/Ku-Band Satellite Systems - Tuning, Tracking, Azimuth, Elevation, Declination Angles, F/D Ratio, Focal Distance, Inclinometer, LNB/Feedhorn Assembly, Actuator Assembly, C

To adjust the arc, while pointing at a south satellite and using the coax signal meter, move the motor slightly up and dish slightly down. Or move the motor down and dish up.

When you are done with your arc adjustment (still on south satellite), adjust the signal meter so it is middle range (5 on my meter), then press lightly on the dish with your hand to move it up - signal meter should go down. Press lightly on the dish with your hand to move it down - signal meter should go down.

If the signal goes down if the dish is moved up or down, then this means you are aiming at the satellite dead center and have a perfect adjustment for that south pointing satellite.

Now the trick is to keep adjusting the arc - moving dish back and forth, untill all satellites in the arc are dead on like this.

This took me a week to get right the first time I tried. Takes lots of patience.

Hints...

If the dish needs to go up more for east satellites and down more for west satellites (or other way around), then need to rotate positioner on pole.

If both east and west need to go down more or both need to go up more, then it is an arc adjustment.

If you need to adjust the arc up in the east and west, then you adjust the positioner DOWN and the dish up.

If you need to adjust the arc down in the east and west, then you adjust the positioner UP and the dish down.

[Jagee]

My motor has all the adjustments the dish has none.I can adjust the angle and the declination with the motoe but nothing else so is that what i use then.And which sat do i want to look for at the far w. and the far e.Also i notice when i click on the names of echo7 and 8 they give me the same signal and channels that the canada channel does i know that isb\n't right how come they do that.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by bill190

Ok, you need to use a coax attached signal meter to adjust the arc on your dish. The signal meter on your dish will only show a reading for the one specific satellite you have selected and only if the frequency is active and FTA! A coax attached signal meter will show a reading for any satellite C or Ku (depending on which LNB you have itr attached to).
...

You do NOT "need" a signal meter to align your dish. If we didn't have sites like Lyngsat, and forums like this, then it would be more difficult, however we do have these resources to tell us what freq/sr to look for. It is an advantage, not a disadvantage that the receiver's meter only responds to one sat/transponder. It helps to make sure that you are on the right sat.

Hand held meters can definately be handy and can help, but they are simply not something you "need". I only recently (3 or 4 years ago) got a meter. The 15 or more years before that, I used nothing more than the meters on the receivers. Of course it helped that years ago there were a lot more analog signals, which made this process easier, however if you set up a DVB receiver looking for a known signal, there should be no problems using just the receiver, provided that you move slowly. The main problem with DVB receiver's meters are that they are very slow to respond. The somewhat bigger problem with hand held meters is that they can be confused by the varying signals strength of linear vs DBS satellites. Like try to hit a linear sat that is close to a Nimiq, DTV or Dishnet sat, and you're very likely to end up on the DBS sat rather than the one you're looking for. Hand held meters can be very useful, but a lot of people consider them useless. I say use it if you have it, but you certainly don't need it.