Mercury II - Adding sat names for C/Ku

[bill190]

If there is a satellite which has both C and Ku, you need to have the satellite listed twice in the satellite list on your receiver.

I name each satellite listed as being for C or for Ku.

Example...

Receiver comes with say only "AMC 1" listed. I edit this listing and create a new listing to end up with this...

AMC 1 C
AMC 1 Ku

And why do you need to do this?

Because in Antenna Setup, you need to specify the LNB used. C uses a different LNB than Ku.

So for C you would select 5150 as the LNB. For Ku you would select Universal or 10750 for the LNB. Since you can only specify one LNB, you need to list the satellite twice - one listing for C and one listing for Ku.

Then further down in Antenna Setup, you tell your receiver "how to get to" the LNB. There would be two LNB's (one C and one Ku). So typically a diseqc switch would be used. In my case for C, I select diseqc 1.0, then below that LNB 1. This tells the receiver to connect to the C LNB. For Ku I select diseqc 1.0, then below that LNB 2. This tells the receiver to connect to the Ku LNB.

Before adding a new satellite name, I look at the existing Transponder frequency list for the existing satellite in Antenna Setup. There may be only Ku frequencies (5 digit). Or only C frequencies (4 digit). Or both. If there are mostly Ku frequencies listed, then the new satellite name I create will be for C. Or if mostly C already listed, then the new sat name I create will be for Ku.

To create a new satellite name, click on menu, then right click to get to Utility, then down to Add Satellite. Now it says New and you can overwrite the name "New". Use the 0-9 keys on the remote to name your satellite. Keep pressing the same key again and again to get different letters, then lower case, then last would be the number.

For example I press 2 again and again and I get this: ABCabc2

Then you can use left right arrows to move left/right.

Click on the 0 key and wait a second and it will type a space.

Click on the yellow key and it will move everything to the right inserting a space.

Click on the red key and it will go backwards deleting a character.

Once your new satellite name is as you want it, click OK. then scroll down and select the LNB you will be using for this sat band, then the position of the satellite.

Then go to Store and click OK to save the satellite name.

You can also go into Utility and click on Edit Satellite, select a satellite, then press one of the number keys and the name will come up to edit the name. Then scroll to the right to add C or Ku.

Example: My satellite list says only AMC 1. Then I add satellite name AMC 1 C. But I want to add Ku to the end of original listing which just says AMC 1. So I edit the existing name, click on a number key to bring it up in the editor, use right arrow to go to the right, click on the 0 key to insert a space, then click on the 5 twice to get K, then click on the 8 key 5 times to get lower case u. Then click OK, be sure LNB, etc. is set OK, then scroll to Store and save.

Note: I have a VBox II positioner for my big dish 36 volt actuator (positioner). When I add a satellite name to the satellite list on my receiver or delete a name, this changes the stored positions of many other satellites for which I have already stored the positions. But I keep track of the satellite position numbers as I find them. So Galaxy 10 may have been at position number 321, then I add a satellite name, then I find that Galaxy 10 is now at position 395 and these channels no longer work! So I just go into setup, select that satellite, move the dish back to 321, then click on store - and I am back in business.

So best to add satellite names all at one time, then go back and fix the already added satellites if needed. Also keep track of the position number of where each sat is on a piece of paper. (I don't use USUALS, so don't know about that.)

Also I have my satellite list sorted by their positions in the sky. Do this by pressing menu, going to System Setup, select Others, scroll to Satellite Sort, then select position.

After adding/editing my satellite names, I go back to Antenna Setup and edit the Transponder list for each satellite. For the existing satellite name which say I renamed to Ku, I will go through and delete any C frequencies (4 digit). Then for the new C sat name, I will edit the Transponder list and add a couple of FTA C frequencies/H-V/SR# for the sat I have found on lyngsat.com (4 digit).

[bill190]

Note about transponder frequencies from lyngsat.com to add to your satellite listings...

At the below link is the lyngsat.com page for AMC 1.

Above I made two satellite names called AMC 1 C and AMC 1 Ku.

When adding transponder frequencies to each of the above satellite listings (in Antenna Setup)... on lyngsat.com I would look for frequencies which have a light yellow color and and have a red "F" with a blue box around it. These are free-to-air frequencies and will usually* show up on the signal meter of the receiver when they are selected.

*some of these listings are outdated and don't work anymore. Or sometimes nothing is being broadcast and there will be no reading.

So for satellite AMC 1 C, I would enter a C-band frequency (4 digit) or two (just to find the satellite). Blind search will automatically find all the other frequencies, even some which are not listed. And then a frequency or two for AMC 1 Ku.

In Antenna Setup, I scroll down to Transponder, then click OK and see if these frequencies are already on the list. If yes, then no need to add it. If not, I exit out of the list, then click on the red button to edit the transponder list. Then just scroll down to each item and enter the numbers, then click on Add TP and it will add it to the transponder list for that satellite listing.

So looking at the lyngsat.com page for AMC 1 (link below), these are the TP frequencies I would add, then H or V, and then the SR...

[Note: I am writing this on May 7, 2007. If you are reading this in the year 2009, these frequencies may not be there, lyngsat.com may not be there, the satellite may have been renamed to something else and may no longer exist, etc. These things change!]

AMC 1 C
3750 H 29270
3800 H 29270

AMC 1 Ku
11818 V 3250
11828 V 5789

Then when I am searching for these satellites, I will use one of the above frequencies. Using these frequencies (if they are active) will get the signal meter going. The frequencies listed in the receiver may be outdated as these change with time. So if using an inactive frequency, you can be right on the satellite with your dish and the signal meter will show nothing!

After I have added an active FTA frequency, found the satellite, then I run a Power Search and it finds all the other frequencies. Nice!

AMC 1 at lyngsat.com...
AMC 1 at 103.0°W - LyngSat

[elgemcdlf]

Minor addition: You need to be looking for DVB as an entry also. The 3800 29270 is a DCII tp and you will not get it with your DVB MPEG2 receiver. That one requires a 4DTV receiver.

EDIT: Along with Bill what caught my eye was the sr. 29270 is a very common DCII sr. I had to go look just as he did. I know my BEC would lock DCII sr's but you would get nothing from them.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by bill190

......
When adding transponder frequencies to each of the above satellite listings (in Antenna Setup)... on lyngsat.com I would look for frequencies which have a light yellow color and and have a red "F" with a blue box around it. These are free-to-air frequencies and will usually* show up on the signal meter of the receiver when they are selected.

*some of these listings are outdated and don't work anymore. Or sometimes nothing is being broadcast and there will be no reading.

So for satellite AMC 1 C, I would enter a C-band frequency (4 digit) or two (just to find the satellite). Blind search will automatically find all the other frequencies, even some which are not listed. And then a frequency or two for AMC 1 Ku.

In Antenna Setup, I scroll down to Transponder, then click OK and see if these frequencies are already on the list. If yes, then no need to add it. If not, I exit out of the list, then click on the red button to edit the transponder list. Then just scroll down to each item and enter the numbers, then click on Add TP and it will add it to the transponder list for that satellite listing.

So looking at the lyngsat.com page for AMC 1 (link below), these are the TP frequencies I would add, then H or V, and then the SR...

[Note: I am writing this on May 7, 2007. If you are reading this in the year 2009, these frequencies may not be there, lyngsat.com may not be there, the satellite may have been renamed to something else and may no longer exist, etc. These things change!]

AMC 1 C
3750 H 29270
3800 H 29270

AMC 1 Ku
11818 V 3250
11828 V 5789

Then when I am searching for these satellites, I will use one of the above frequencies. Using these frequencies (if they are active) will get the signal meter going. .....

I'm a bit confused re where you found the 3750 H 29270 above? I don't see that on the AMC1 Lyngsat page. It must be 2009 already.

However the reason the above caught my eye, is that more often than not, a 29270 SR value is a DCII signal that you can't lock with a FTA receiver. This has been one of the more frequent questions here, ie people look at Lyngsat, see the "F" symbol that they think means FTA, but can't receive the channel because it's really a DCII transponder and the "F" meant FP not FTA. I was just checking your two examples since they are the common DCII SR value. The 3800 H 29270 is in fact a DCII channel which you can't lock with an FTA receiver. I couldn't find the 3750 example, but there is a 3740 V 29270 transponder there (maybe that's what you meant), which IS a DVB transponder, and would lock, and would be a good transponder to try.
But anyway, it's important to also check the signal type when looking at Lyngsat.

[bill190]

Oops! I think I intended to type 3740.

Will the DCII frequencies show up on the signal meter? So far as just finding the satellite?

I don't remember what worked and what did not. I just keep trying different frequencies (with F) until I find the sat, then run power scan.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by bill190

Oops! I think I intended to type 3740.

Will the DCII frequencies show up on the signal meter? So far as just finding the satellite?

I don't remember what worked and what did not. I just keep trying different frequencies (with F) until I find the sat, then run power scan.

Any signal, DCII, DVB or analog, will show up on the hand held signal meters. They pretty much respond to the whole band, from below 950 to well past 1450. But for the receiver to lock and show quality, it has to be DVB, and it also cannot be 8PSK.

[bill190]

OK, I see... I just went and tried the 3800 H 29270 on my receiver and got no difference in signal level (or quality of course) if I moved my dish away from the sat.

I knew I would not get the quality level, but I thought I would get the signal level for any active TP when I moved my dish to the sat.

[bill190]

Update on the adding sat names and the receiver losing existing positions problem with VBox II positioner (I mentioned above).

I've been discussing this on another forum and another person said he only added sat names and did not have the problem I did. In my case, I was also deleting sat names.

So I think the problem only occurs when deleting sat names. Adding sat names should not be a problem.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by bill190

.......
Note: I have a VBox II positioner for my big dish 36 volt actuator (positioner). When I add a satellite name to the satellite list on my receiver or delete a name, this changes the stored positions of many other satellites for which I have already stored the positions. But I keep track of the satellite position numbers as I find them. So Galaxy 10 may have been at position number 321, then I add a satellite name, then I find that Galaxy 10 is now at position 395 and these channels no longer work! So I just go into setup, select that satellite, move the dish back to 321, then click on store - and I am back in business.
......

I don't have a VBOX, and I've never used the Mercury to move a dish, so when I read the above, it made no sense at all to me, at least compared to the DiseqC1.2 receivers I have used, ie the Fortec Lifetime, and Fortec Ultra, and the DiseqC1.2 functions in PC based receivers. That just isn't the way DiseqC should behave.
But I thought perhaps the Mercury is different somehow, so I went downstairs to my Mercury, and went into the DiseqC 1.2 section, and boy is it EVER different. This receiver has tried to dumb down the slightly complicated DiseqC 1.2 function so much, that it is almost un-usable. Frankly, I don't think I can even use this receiver with my 90 CM dish, because the motor has been set up with a traditional DiseqC 1.2 receiver, and there is no way to select satellite numbers with this receiver. The receiver's DiseqC 1.2 menu doesn't use diseqC sat numbers at all, it only allows you to input a sat longitude which is only used for ordering the sats, and apparently it just picks DiseqC 1.2 numbers in sequence somehow, and never tells you what number it has chosen. I can completely understand now why you had the above problems with this. And for anyone like myself, who wants to be able to use a motor with more than one receiver, this Mercury just simply cannot be used in DiseqC 1.2 mode.

I set up my 90cm's motor using my PC card receiver, then went into my Fortec lifetime, and just told the lifetime what sat numbers I had chosen. Very simple. But with this dumb receiver you can't do that.

This would all be acceptable, if perhaps they had a PC channel editor which was capbable of going in and editing the raw DiseqC 1.2 data, which is easy with the Lifetime and Ultra's editor. However the editor that they provide for the Mercury also has absolutely no way to edit any DiseqC 1.2 information!

For Fortec to claim that this receiver can do DiseqC 1.2 is extremely misleading. The receiver itself may use DiseqC 1.2 commands but the receiver does NOT let the USER use DiseqC 1.2 . At least the user doesn't have full control of the functions.

This is extremely bad. As far as I'm concerned, this Mercury is a disaster. I am sorry that I ever bought the dumb thing. The ONLY good things about this receiver is the component video output and the ability to do some menu functions like search and edit, without backing out and entering another menu area.

I hope the new Fortec HD receiver, that I've been looking forward to, isn't so dumbed down as this receiver. If so, I'm certainly going to lean toward getting one of it's competitors instead. I am really dissappointed with Fortec. Instead of fixing the bugs in the Ultra, which I think is a nice receiver, they have gone backwards with each receiver they have brought out since the Ultra.

Thanks for pointing out this weird behavior of the Mercury. I would have never noticed it until at some point down the line I tried using it with my 90CM dish. But now, I think I'll just use the thing on a fixed dish, or perhaps with my C-band dish, since I control that with an analog receiver.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by bill190

OK, I see... I just went and tried the 3800 H 29270 on my receiver and got no difference in signal level (or quality of course) if I moved my dish away from the sat.

I knew I would not get the quality level, but I thought I would get the signal level for any active TP when I moved my dish to the sat.

I guess I'm surprised too. I would have thought that the signal level would have changed. However several people have reported some weird signal level behavior on this receiver, ie the zero signal high quality thing. I think they must somehow have signal strength and quality linked together in this very strange receiver. I know that my Mercury, on some channels, at times will give signal levels that keep jumping up and down wildly, while if I connect the coax to another receiver, it behaves normally.

[Vitruvius]

Bill, wow.. .you are the curmudgeon. LOL
I am new to this satellite stuff and found the manual for the Mercury very limited in explaining all its functions. It took me a month to run through all the buttons on the remote and I still don't know how to get the IMG working.
At first installation of my dish, I received only a few satellites and I figured my south was off. I could get say Long 85 to 107 at first. I would not use the USALS function. I used the Disceq 1.2 to get the dish near the satellite, and then I would nudge the dish using the Mercury to hone in on the strongest signal. Many of times I would be on the wrong satellite, but would powerscan for channels anyway.
Now that the weather has gotten better, I finally took a 20 inch tv (the smallest size I have) and the receiver to my porch roof to adjust the dish direction and altitude. I knew my cooridinate just fine (using Google gives them pretty accurately). I just didnt have true south down. After the adjustments it has been night and day. I am amazed... and the Mercury has been great for this newbie. Since my dish is now on the ARC, I can use USALS only to find any satellite from 40.5 to 148. WOW, it is all automatic.
I have a tree obstruction that blocks my getting 123.
But now, do I understand that I can add transponders to the Mercury and possibly get more stations? If I find that I am not getting all the DVB stations for a satellite on Lyngsat, I can add the transponder? I thought that is what powerscan was doing. I did update the software for the Mercury and was able to get the PBS stations I was hunting. Is that because the reciever is not always up to date?
Anyway, for this newbie the Mercury II works just fine, but probably could be better, but I don't know how. I just neet to find more channels.

Thanks for all your informative postings.

fortecstar Mercury II
fortec 80cm dish
sg2100 motor

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

Bill, wow.. .you are the curmudgeon. LOL
.........
But now, do I understand that I can add transponders to the Mercury and possibly get more stations? If I find that I am not getting all the DVB stations for a satellite on Lyngsat, I can add the transponder? I thought that is what powerscan was doing. I did update the software for the Mercury and was able to get the PBS stations I was hunting. Is that because the reciever is not always up to date?
Anyway, for this newbie the Mercury II works just fine, but probably could be better, but I don't know how. I just neet to find more channels.
.....

Yeah, the curmudgeon thing was what they called me where I used to work. But I guess working with nerve gas tends to make you grumpy.

Updating the software shouldn't have affected getting PBS, but you never know. The blind search functions don't always work the same every time.

Re the Mercury working fine, I guess I should have been more clear that it should be fine for people with a simple system with just 1 dish with that one receiver. My complaint is that they have assumed that all users are using the receiver one way, and didn't allow for the possibility that other people might use the receiver differently. I basically have 5 different FTA receivers running here on several dishes, and I switch which dish goes to what receiver all the time. I can switch my 90 CM dish to any of my other FTA receivers, and each receiver can control the dish, because I have each set up so that the sats I use have the same DiseqC 1.2 sat numbers. The DiseqC motors don't know satellites by name, but they store positions by numbers which vary from 1 thru 60. The first 25 or so are pre-defined for European sats, but you can redefine these to whatever you want. But for example, I have AMC3 defined as sat position 29 and Galaxy 11 is sat position 31, so on any of my other receivers, I just define those sats to those numbers, and it can send the dish there. But the way they have the Mercury set up, you can't define a satellite to any specific DiseqC sat number. You apparently have to take whatever number it randomly uses, and can't even determine what that number was from what I can tell, although I guess I could hook the motor up to another receiver and one by one tell it to go to 1 thru 60, then try to figure out what number it really was on.

Anyway, sorry for being grumpy, and I do realize that what I'm criticizing here won't affect many or maybe even most users, but I still find it very annoying that they have taken capability away from the user in order to make the receiver more user friendly.