Lifetime basic questions and problem saving sat locations

[orac]

Hello all and happy new year. This'll be my first posting to the Sadoun forums, though I have read a lot of past topics, but didn't see a couple questions answered.

I recently purchased a Lifetime receiver and have been setting it up with an old PrimeStar dish with an SG-2100 motor. Been having trouble getting the receiver to remember the satellite locations. I'll get it pointed successfully at a satellite, move to a different satellite in the antenna setup menu, and find it successfully, but then I've lost the position of the previous satellite(s) when I try to go back to it. It'll be way off, anywhere from 5 to 50 degrees on different occasions. I'll select "go to reference" and the dish is not on zero as it had been, like it's forgetting where zero is. I'm in southern California, and here are my specific newbie questions.

(1) What are the F1, F2, and F3 keys on the remote used for?
(2) How do I make the built-in clock stop losing a minute a day?
(3) How do I use the EPG function that's barely mentioned in the manual?
(4) What or where are the predefined satellites numbered 0 through 26?
(5) How do I specify or know if a satellite I want to point to is one of those that are predefined?
(6) Is 50 therefore the max number of satellites I can have defined (user numbers 27 through 49, or only 23 of my own creation)?
(7) If I can use USALS with my SG-2100, do these predefined satellites have any meaning?
(8 ) Can I mix it so some satellites are set to USALS mode while others (namely the two furthest east, apparently beyond the limits of the USALS software) are set to DiSEqC 1.2 mode?
(9) Does the "Go to reference" option in the 1.2 menu mean the same as the ""reference position" option in the USALS menu, namely that the motor will be driven to the zero degree position, and that it will always mean that and nothing else?
(10) If I disable the positioner setting on all my satellites so the dish doesn't move as I'm scrolling through the satellite list in the antenna setup menu, as suggested in the manual, page 19, how will my dish move when I'm watching TV and I change channels to one that's on a different satellite?
(11) Is the SG-2100 literally a "dumb" device, moving only as commanded by the receiver, only providing feedback as to the motor's position?
(12) What is meant in the SG-2100's manual about reloading the "preset satellite table" when a hardware reset is performed?

Whew, I guess I had more questions than I initially thought. I look forward to the help I'm sure I'll be receiving.

[Sadoun]

Neil

Great questions and I hope a few people will take a stab at it.

To solve some of the satellite storage issues, go to the www.fortecstar.com and download the lastest f/w released a few weeks ago. You could check the current version loaded in your receiver by scrolling to system information in the menu. Latest f/w is the 2.19.

[dtsexpert]

(1) What are the F1, F2, and F3 keys on the remote used for?

They seem to do nothing...:-)

(2) How do I make the built-in clock stop losing a minute a day?

I don't pay attention with the clock. Check out the firmware version to see if you have the lastest one 2.19. I can't confirm if the lastest firmware fix the problem

(3) How do I use the EPG function that's barely mentioned in the manual?
The function is there, but it only works if the sat providers provide EPG in the stream.

(4) What or where are the predefined satellites numbered 0 through 26?
I don't quite understand this question. But you can check the sat list to see the preprogram satellites.

(5) How do I specify or know if a satellite I want to point to is one of those that are predefined?
If you use the USALS, the receivers will automatically moves the dish to the desired sats. If you use 1.2, you have to move the dish manually.

(6) Is 50 therefore the max number of satellites I can have defined (user numbers 27 through 49, or only 23 of my own creation)?
I don't read the manual so I really don't know the exact # of sat user can have. I remember 50 or more. Don't worry about running out of sat slots. They are more than enought.

(7) If I can use USALS with my SG-2100, do these predefined satellites have any meaning?
Yes, they do. The predefined sats have their own longtitude. In order to use the USALS, you have to key in your Lat and Long correctly. Correct Long and Lat are very important. If they are not correct, the receiver will not move the dish precisely to the desired sats.

(8 ) Can I mix it so some satellites are set to USALS mode while others (namely the two furthest east, apparently beyond the limits of the USALS software) are set to DiSEqC 1.2 mode?
Yes, you can. But once you set up the h-h mount correctly, I recommend to use the USALS. In case the mouse miss 1/2 deg or 1 deg using USALS, you can change the setting to 1.2, then manually move the dish to get lock.

(9) Does the "Go to reference" option in the 1.2 menu mean the same as the ""reference position" option in the USALS menu, namely that the motor will be driven to the zero degree position, and that it will always mean that and nothing else?
I never use this function, so I don't know.

(10) If I disable the positioner setting on all my satellites so the dish doesn't move as I'm scrolling through the satellite list in the antenna setup menu, as suggested in the manual, page 19, how will my dish move when I'm watching TV and I change channels to one that's on a different satellite?
If I understand you correctly here, are you worrying to select channels on other sats which will force the receiver to move where you don't want to?
Here is the trick:
You can group channels by sats instead of using the "ALL" list. Press the sat channel, then select the desired sat, it will only shows the channels belong to that sat.
You don't need to disable anything.

(11) Is the SG-2100 literally a "dumb" device, moving only as commanded by the receiver, only providing feedback as to the motor's position?
It will take a very long post to explain how the 1.2 function work...:-)
If you really want to learn, I will provide you a link where you can find all the info of how the 1.2 operate.

(12) What is meant in the SG-2100's manual about reloading the "preset satellite table" when a hardware reset is performed?
I have no idea what it is. Again, I don't read the SG2100 either...:-)
Perhaps "limit settings" for East and West. Cool thing about SG2100 is that you can extend the rotation angle which allow us to move a little bit further towards East and West.

Now back to the question of why you can't save the sat position. Here is what I find out:
Once you get lock on the sat, you HAVE to scan in some channels on that sat. Otherwise, the receiver will not memorize the sat position. It's kind of weird to me. But that's how it works. If you want to move from one sat to the other, just simply to select the channels on the desired sat, the receiver will to the dish to it.

Michael

[orac]

Originally Posted by Sadoun

Neil
To solve some of the satellite storage issues, go to the www.fortecstar.com and download the lastest f/w released a few weeks ago. You could check the current version loaded in your receiver by scrolling to system information in the menu. Latest f/w is the 2.19.

Had a look and maybe 2.19 would help me. I have 2.15 in my box. Hopefully the manual store feature will solve my woes.

Do you know if this update will cause me to lose the TP and satellite edits I've made?

How long can the Lifetime go without power before it loses its stored data?

[orac]

Originally Posted by dtsexpert

(2) How do I make the built-in clock stop losing a minute a day?

I don't pay attention with the clock. Check out the firmware version to see if you have the lastest one 2.19. I can't confirm if the lastest firmware fix the problem

Hopefully the new firmware will help. I hope to do some timeshift recording using the timers in the Lifetime, so it sure would be nice if the clock was accurate.

Originally Posted by dtsexpert

(3) How do I use the EPG function that's barely mentioned in the manual?

The function is there, but it only works if the sat providers provide EPG in the stream.

So the FTA hobbyist who doesn't subscribe to any programming through a "provider" is SOL?

Originally Posted by dtsexpert

(4) What or where are the predefined satellites numbered 0 through 26?
(5) How do I specify or know if a satellite I want to point to is one of those that are predefined?
(6) Is 50 therefore the max number of satellites I can have defined (user numbers 27 through 49, or only 23 of my own creation)?
(7) If I can use USALS with my SG-2100, do these predefined satellites have any meaning?

I don't quite understand this question. But you can check the sat list to see the preprogram satellites.

I was speaking of the option seen in the "antenna setup" -> "positioner setting" -> "DiSEqC 1.2" menu in the "current position" field. The manual says "select position number by using < > keys (#0 - #26 are defined default values, #27 - #49 are user defined values)." Every satellite shows "null" in that field when I go to the 1.2 menu. Why would I ever want to change this? How is this option supposed to be used? What are the definitions of positions 0 through 26?

Originally Posted by dtsexpert

(10) If I disable the positioner setting on all my satellites so the dish doesn't move as I'm scrolling through the satellite list in the antenna setup menu, as suggested in the manual, page 19, how will my dish move when I'm watching TV and I change channels to one that's on a different satellite?

If I understand you correctly here, are you worrying to select channels on other sats which will force the receiver to move where you don't want to?
Here is the trick:
You can group channels by sats instead of using the "ALL" list. Press the sat channel, then select the desired sat, it will only shows the channels belong to that sat.
You don't need to disable anything.

Not exactly. I'm "worried" that I'll be using the motor unecessarily when I'm scrolling through list of satellites in the "antenna setup" menu" (which I'm doing a heck of a lot of as I try to set up all my satellites). Try it. Point the cursor to a satellite that is set to 1.2 or USALS and walk outside and look at your dish. You'll see it moving to point to the satellite. Then scroll to a different satellite on the list and you'll see it then moving to that satellite. The manual specifically mentions that if you don't want this to happen while you're in the "antenna setup" menu, you should set the satellite(s) to "disable". So my question is - while I'm just channel surfing and select a channel on a different satellite, is the dish still supposed to move to the new satellite even though it's positioner setting is still set to "disable"?

Originally Posted by dtsexpert

Cool thing about SG2100 is that you can extend the rotation angle which allow us to move a little bit further towards East and West.

Precisely why I chose it over the Stab HH100 motor.
________________________

The results of my work on the system today are mixed. For a time it seemed as if it was starting to work okay. I avoided selecting USALS on any satellite, instead just moving the dish manually to each position, scanning for channels and enjoying the new programming. Sometimes, but more often not, if I selected a channel on a different sat, the dish would move to the sat and show the channel. Usually the dish would just remain on the previous satellite. I could go into the setup menu and manually move it using 1.2 commands, but it's still not remembering all the satellite positions as I think it should be. I guess I'll try the new firmware and see how that works for me.
___________________

My work today reminded me of another question about the Lifetime that's been in the back of my mind -

(13) The options for scanning for channels are "FTA", "FTA+D", "ALL" and "ALL+D". The manual only mentions "free" and "ALL". What does the "+D" represent?

and another question with regards to receiving analog feeds -

(14) I have a Toshiba TRX 1820 IRD and want to use it to receive the analog signals that are on Ku. Is it as simple as connecting the Lifetime's IF loop-through output to the Toshiba's Ku input? I'd have to use the Lifetime to point the dish, of course, and I suppose I'd have to tune a signal with the correct polarity using the Lifetime, but then the Toshiba would be able to use that signal and display the analog feed to my TV. Is there a better or more proper way of doing it?

Thanks again everyone.

[dtsexpert]

13) The options for scanning for channels are "FTA", "FTA+D", "ALL" and "ALL+D". The manual only mentions "free" and "ALL". What does the "+D" represent?

I guess the letter D represents for Data

(14) I have a Toshiba TRX 1820 IRD and want to use it to receive the analog signals that are on Ku. Is it as simple as connecting the Lifetime's IF loop-through output to the Toshiba's Ku input? I'd have to use the Lifetime to point the dish, of course, and I suppose I'd have to tune a signal with the correct polarity using the Lifetime, but then the Toshiba would be able to use that signal and display the analog feed to my TV. Is there a better or more proper way of doing it?

Yes, that's the right way to set them up. If you want to set up the analog receiver work independently, upgrade the lnbf to dual, then run another cable for the analog feeds.
FYI: hot birds for analog feeds
SBS6: at weekend, lots of colleage football
G11R: ABC and ESPN somtimes use this bird for their feeds (Friday night boxing...)
T5: Telemundo boxing...

[orac]

Everyone, please excuse my long absence. The outside world took priority these past two weeks. Things seem to be settling back down a bit.

So, in reference to all my original questions and problems relating to getting my dish/motor to work in harmony, the final root cause of my problems turned out to be an ever so slightly mispointed dish, no more than 1/32 of an inch on the 2-3/8 inch diameter pole. I was getting my "south" satellite fine but when I used USALS to point to the "end" satellites I wasn't getting them. After repointing the dish that small amount, all the satellites came in perfectly along the entire usable arc with USALS. So, I've abandoned any attempt to use DisEqC 1.2 positioning, which, by the way, I still couldn't figure out how to use properly with this receiver.

I did go ahead and download the latest firmware from FortecStar (wish their site would allow use of Netscape) and was happy that all my TP mods were not overwritten. Most visible improvement in operation with the new firmware is the properly operating signal quality meter. Now it behaves like a proper "Bell" curve with the peak in the middle whereas before it was more like an inverted Bell curve where the strongest signal indication was right at the edges just before you lost the signal.

Clock is still losing a minute a day, and I've since realized, too, that very little detail is given in the manual about how to operate the on/off timers. Worst of all when setting the channel to be tuned when the timer comes on, you can't directly enter a channel number, you have to scroll through the list of ALL channels you have saved, one at a time, until you get to the one you want. That could prove to be a major annoyance if one has all 3000 available channel memories in use. (up to 1500 button pushes just to set a stinking timer!)

I hooked up my Toshiba TRX 1820 analog tuner last weekend to try to get some analog feeds, without success. Absolutely nothing. Not sure I have things set up properly, though, so here's another round of questions.

(1) The Lifetime's loop-through output is connected to the Toshiba's Ku input. I've used the Lifetime to point to the satellite I want, and tuned to a stored digital channel with the same polarity as the analog channel I want to view on the Toshiba. Is this the best way to do it?

(2) In the above scenario, am I right in assuming the Lifetime must be on while I watch the analog feed on the Toshiba, and that the correct polarity must be set by the Lifetime?

(3) Is there an "always on" analog feed on Ku somewhere that I can go to check my setup and equipment operation? I see the SES Americom test card listed on AMC 9, but the problem there is I don't have any channels with V polarity on that satellite stored in the Lifetime, so I can't set the LNB accordingly to allow the Toshiba to see the analog feed. Don't see any other permanent analog feeds on Ku anywhere.

(4) Is the Toshiba expecting to see a different Ku LNB than the one I have? I have a universal, 9750/10600. The Toshiba documentation doesn't say, but I'm guessing it's looking for a 10750 (11,700 - 950). How would I adjust the freq I'm trying to tune on the Toshiba to account for this discrepancy? Does this question make any sense?

I'll reserve my final question until I see how far off base I am about my understanding of things.
___
Neil

[dtsexpert]

(1) The Lifetime's loop-through output is connected to the Toshiba's Ku input. I've used the Lifetime to point to the satellite I want, and tuned to a stored digital channel with the same polarity as the analog channel I want to view on the Toshiba. Is this the best way to do it?

Yes, it is

(2) In the above scenario, am I right in assuming the Lifetime must be on while I watch the analog feed on the Toshiba, and that the correct polarity must be set by the Lifetime?

Yes, that's correct. I recommend you use a DC block between your analog and lifetime. You can get it at Radio Shack, $2/each.

(3) Is there an "always on" analog feed on Ku somewhere that I can go to check my setup and equipment operation? I see the SES Americom test card listed on AMC 9, but the problem there is I don't have any channels with V polarity on that satellite stored in the Lifetime, so I can't set the LNB accordingly to allow the Toshiba to see the analog feed. Don't see any other permanent analog feeds on Ku anywhere.

AMC9 has one. During weekend, lot of analog feeds are on SBS6.

(4) Is the Toshiba expecting to see a different Ku LNB than the one I have? I have a universal, 9750/10600. The Toshiba documentation doesn't say, but I'm guessing it's looking for a 10750 (11,700 - 950). How would I adjust the freq I'm trying to tune on the Toshiba to account for this discrepancy? Does this question make any sense?

The problem is right here. I have a Toshiba 120 which I could not figure out how to change the defaul LO which is 10750. Setting up the analog receiver is kind of complicated since most of them are 5 years old or more...:-)
Can't speak for other brands, but the Toshiba 120 requires to key in L-band so you need convert the freq to L-band.
Check out the link below for the instruction of how to set up the Toshiba 100/120. Hopefully, it can be used for your analog model.
http://www.satellitehelp.com/tosh_100_index.asp#Figure1
Good luck,
Michael

[orac]

Originally Posted by orac

(2) In the above scenario, am I right in assuming the Lifetime must be on while I watch the analog feed on the Toshiba, and that the correct polarity must be set by the Lifetime?

Which component am I protecting - the Lifetime or the analog Toshiba?

Originally Posted by orac

(4) Is the Toshiba expecting to see a different Ku LNB than the one I have? I have a universal, 9750/10600. The Toshiba documentation doesn't say, but I'm guessing it's looking for a 10750 (11,700 - 950). How would I adjust the freq I'm trying to tune on the Toshiba to account for this discrepancy? Does this question make any sense?

I not sure I grasp what you mean here - "convert the freq to L-band"? Let's say I want to tune the SES Americom test card on AMC9 12080V. With my universal LNB upper LO of 10600, the freq my Lifetime sees would be 1480, right? And that gets passed along to the Toshiba, right? But my Toshiba will only accept frequencies from 950-1450. So how do I pass along a signal that's within the freq range the analog Toshiba can use? (Can't be done for satellite freqs above 12050, I'm beginning to think, unless I get an LNB with a different LO.)

I have the original manual for my Toshiba analog receiver (TRX-1820) and everything on the link you sent is in there. There's nothing in the manual that talks about the ability to shift the usable range of incoming freqs.
___
Neil

[dtsexpert]

1. We are trying to protect your Fortec Lifetime.
2. L-band = freq - Lnbf LO
Michael

Originally Posted by orac

Which component am I protecting - the Lifetime or the analog Toshiba?

I not sure I grasp what you mean here - "convert the freq to L-band"? Let's say I want to tune the SES Americom test card on AMC9 12080V. With my universal LNB upper LO of 10600, the freq my Lifetime sees would be 1480, right? And that gets passed along to the Toshiba, right? But my Toshiba will only accept frequencies from 950-1450. So how do I pass along a signal that's within the freq range the analog Toshiba can use? (Can't be done for satellite freqs above 12050, I'm beginning to think, unless I get an LNB with a different LO.)

I have the original manual for my Toshiba analog receiver (TRX-1820) and everything on the link you sent is in there. There's nothing in the manual that talks about the ability to shift the usable range of incoming freqs.
___
Neil