Want to receive both C and Ku

[forget_f1]

Hi

I am new to satellites and I would like to receive AMC-6 (C-band) and Telestar 12 (Ku-band). Is this possible?

I live in Gainesville Florida and was wondering what equipment do I need.

For example, is a 120cm dish adequate to receive both?
Do I need two LNB's, one for C and one for Ku or are there any dual ones out there?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Demetris

[elgemcdlf]

For C Band you really need at least a 8.5' dish. For Ku you really need a solid dish. So as we look at this a solid dish 8.5' or larger would cover your needs. Now you can go with either a traditional feedhorn and 2 lnbs (1 C and 1 Ku). With this you will need a receiver designed for a big dish to control the skew of the lnbs and movement of the dish

OR

There is a C/Ku lnbf on the market now that could be mounted to the dish that woudl also fit the bill of strictly receivers of the type sold at Sadoun's. This unit will not work with a 4DTV receiver where the above will. Advantage is cost (low for this unit compared to the above configuration) Disadvantage would be not being able to use it with a 4DTV receiver should you decide to add one in the future.

If you went traditional you would require a DiSeqC switch to change between C and Ku (receiver does this automatically) with the lnbf it is built in. With the lnbf you would need a VBox to move the dish. It converts DiSeqC commands to 36v for the actuator.

Other iten of thought. With the lnbf you would only have a single coax cable coming into the house. With the traditional feedhorn configuration you would have a large ribbon cable.

Hope that helps a bit

[rainman]

The lnbf Steve is speaking of is a bsc621-2 c/ku lnbf. do a google search and you should find the info on it.

[forget_f1]

I see that some people have a 1.2 meter solid dish with a BSC621-2 C/Ku LNBF. Do you actually receive C-band satellites? I think it might be best to stick with a Ku kit since I have dish size restrictions.

Thanks for your help.

[rainman]

you can get some c band signals on a 1.2m dish but as Steve recommend if you want c band the 8.5' dish is better.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

For C Band you really need at least a 8.5' dish. For Ku you really need a solid dish. So as we look at this a solid dish 8.5' or larger would cover your needs. .....

I know this no longer relates to the original question, because he has size restrictions, however the above comment is just not correct. You do NOT "need" a solid dish to do Ku, and I would NOT recomend a BIG solid dish to ANYONE except professionals.
I know where this came from, ie the problems you had aligning your 8' dish on Ku, and listening to people like me complaining about side lobes, and reading posts from people who work for TV stations saying that their solid dishes are better than mesh, however the bottom line is that there are millions of hobbiests out there doing C/Ku with mesh dishes. In reality, except for the small all metal ones, most solid dishes are no different from mesh dishes except that the mesh is encased in fibreglass or something. There are solid dishes out there that won't do Ku, because the mesh inside the solid structure is too wide or out of shape, and there are mesh dishes that won't do Ku for the same reason. But for a hobbiest, a mesh dish is MUCH easier to handle, and will work just fine for most people.
Yes, in all likelihood, a smaller solid dish will perform as well on Ku as many big mesh dishes, but if you get a half decent quality mesh dish, it will do fine on Ku and you'll have everything you need in one package.
There are personal reasons such as size restrictions, why people would choose options other than getting a 10' mesh dish, but needing a solid dish for Ku should NOT be one of these reasons. Mesh dishes DO work for Ku, and there are hobbiests all over using mesh dishes for Ku.

[forget_f1]

Thanks guys for all your help. It is people like you that make this worth while. I have opted to go for a 100cm motorized dish for Ku only.

[rainman]

I agree with Bill I have an 8.5 mesh and receive ku signal quite well.just need to upgrade the lnb's as they are getting a little long in the tooth.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by wejones

I know this no longer relates... dishes for Ku.

Actually my recommendation comes from experience. Having owned both mesh and solid (spun alum not fiberglas) The solid dish performs way superior to a mesh dish. Especially for Ku. Can you do Ku on a mesh? Sure I am just like many are BUT if you are buying from scratch a new system that you want to use for both I still hold with a solid dish.

My last dish at a previous residence that was far away so the dish stayed was a 10' solid and I loved it. I have been marginally satisfied with my 8.5' mesh.

Sorry Bill just a die hard solid fan here. I simply have not found a mesh that compares. I am currently putting in another 8.5' mesh for dedicated circular C Band and most likely will convert the other mesh for just the same thing once I replace with a spun alum (one piece) solid dish. At that point the small Ku dish will most likely just fade away into the sunset

[wejones]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

Actually my recommendation comes from experience. Having owned both mesh and solid (spun alum not fiberglas) The solid dish performs way superior to a mesh dish. Especially for Ku. Can you do Ku on a mesh? Sure I am just like many are BUT if you are buying from scratch a new system that you want to use for both I still hold with a solid dish.

My last dish at a previous residence that was far away so the dish stayed was a 10' solid and I loved it. I have been marginally satisfied with my 8.5' mesh.

Sorry Bill just a die hard solid fan here. I simply have not found a mesh that compares. I am currently putting in another 8.5' mesh for dedicated circular C Band and most likely will convert the other mesh for just the same thing once I replace with a spun alum (one piece) solid dish. At that point the small Ku dish will most likely just fade away into the sunset

I wonder if you can suggest a place for a hobbiest like us to purchase a "good" solid 10' dish, and a motor/mount capable of moving it, and indicate the cost, including shipping charges? Ie, my point is that I don't argue that a "good" quality solid dish would be better, but I do argue that these are items that are most people would consider buying, mainly because the shipping costs for these things would exceed the total cost of a mesh dish. This is starting to sound like the guys over on SatForums telling everyone that the "need" 26' dishes and need spectrum analyzers and other expensive professional equipment to get reception.
Most big solid dishes that you see at residences are OLD C-band things that often don't work well for Ku. New big solid dishes will work quite well for Ku, however I just don't consider them to be practical for most hobbiests, because they are expensive,and expensive to ship. If you have a dealer nearby, where you can avoid the shipping charges, then perhaps this would be practical, but for most people this is a lot of effort and expense for little return.
However, as I said, my main complaint was with the suggestion that you "NEED" a solid dish . To get 99.9% of the things you'll see discussed here in this and other similar forums with consumer receivers, you do NOT need a solid 10' dish. An above average quality mesh dish will get virtually everything you'll see listed that you can get with a consumer receiver, although with the advent of some of the newer modulation techniques, higher quality dishes will probably be required, but at this point, none of the consumer receivers are capable of those modes anyway.

Yes, a professional quality solid dish is better, but I think it is not right to tell a beginner that he "NEEDS" such a dish. Just my opinion.

[elgemcdlf]

Actually my thought lent more to locating a unused dish in his area. You know the type. Pointed at the ground or due north The only problem at that point is transportation which usually can be accomodated with a normal pickup truck or flat bed trailer and a few tie downs.

I live somewhat remote so flatbed trailers are in almost every yard along with tractors with ft end loaders. For me where I live obtaining and moving a larger dish (under 16') is not that big of a problem.

Not to mention you simply can not paint any cool things on a mesh dish Like making it look like a face or eyeball or ...

[mhoward]

It seems to me that it would be generally cheaper to have two separate dishes: a cheap used mesh C-band dish from a local person who has switched to dishnet or directv--most of those people would give it to you just to get the ugly thing out of the yard.

Then a 80cm offset dish could be ordered from Ku. Also, it seems to me that a KU band dish is MUCH easier to set up as a motorized dish--I can't imagine seting up a motorized Cband dish--it must be a difficult proposition.

Cband-Ku band LNB seems to be cheaper to buy one of each rather than a combined one.

Just connect it all togeather with a switch?

[wejones]

Originally Posted by mhoward

It seems to me that it would be generally cheaper to have two separate dishes: a cheap used mesh C-band dish from a local person who has switched to dishnet or directv--most of those people would give it to you just to get the ugly thing out of the yard.

I'm sure that's true, I've given away a C-band dish myself. However mine was just to make room for it's replacement. I've also picked up dishes at the dump, one, a nice Primestar, which I used for a while until my wife made me give that away. The trees had grown around where I had it, so I couldn't see ANY sats anyway. But yes, you can find used dishes. Just make sure you get one that is in good shape. There are a couple old dishes near me, pointing north, that I'm sure I could have for the asking, but they are in bad shape. An old or dented or warped dish isn't worth your trouble. And pre-1990 C-band dishes may not work on Ku, if their mesh is too wide. But if you can find a dish in good condition, that is a great find, and NOT just for C-band. If you get such a dish, it is a real shame not to use it for both C and Ku.

Originally Posted by mhoward

Then a 80cm offset dish could be ordered from Ku. Also, it seems to me that a KU band dish is MUCH easier to set up as a motorized dish--I can't imagine seting up a motorized Cband dish--it must be a difficult proposition.

From what I have read here about the problems people have with the little dishes, I don't agree. Setting up a big dish is relatively easy. One of the reasons is that there is no confusion about just which direction they are aiming, which is often confused by dish mounts with angle scales that aren't accurate, or made for another dish. Big dishes usually have flat surfaces that are parallel to the rotation axis, and parallel (or perpindicular) to the dish aim, and another flat surface to aim south. This makes it very easy to use an inclinometer to adjust your inclination and declination, and get very close to proper alignment before you even connect the wires to the thing. Usually, after adjusting angles with the inclinometer, and aiming south, I'm already aligned enough to see 8 or 10 sats. After that, I just peak the inclination, run the dish to the furthest west sat I can find, peak by rotating mount on the pole, and I am in general DONE. All takes about an hour, or at least it WOULD take an hour if I had one of those hand held meters back then. In actuality, there was a bit of running back and forth to where I could see a TV and change channels.
With these little dishes, there are several other confusing variables, such as the dishes offset angle, the motor shaft's offset angle, and the fact that from the look of these things, there is seldom a good surface to put an inclinometer on that is meaningful. So you have to trust the angle scales, which are often wrong.
Anyway, aligning a big dish, while technically the same process, is no harder, and in many ways easier than aligning a small dish.

Originally Posted by mhoward

Cband-Ku band LNB seems to be cheaper to buy one of each rather than a combined one.

That's one aspect of big dish equipment that I don't understand, ie why the feeds and the lnbs are so expensive, compared to the all in one lnbfs used on the small dishes. A good C/Ku feedhorn is a couple hundred $ (if I remember right, and even an average quality C or Ku lnb is up close to $100, so the feeds & lnbs are quite expensive, not to mention that you also need a polarotor motor. It adds up pretty quickly. But if you can find someone throwing a system away, it will usually have the whole feed assembly.

But anyway, my primary reason for replying to this message is to encourage anyone who has the room for a big dish, to please make a home for those poor old C-band dishes in your yard, and use it for both C and Ku. And one of the biggest reasons to do so, is that the uplinkers are now getting confident that there aren't that many C band dishes out there anymore, so they aren't as concerned about scrambling stuff on C-band. You'll find things FTA on C-band that is or would be encrypted on Ku. Funny, back in the late 80s, early 90s, it was the opposite. Back then fewer people had Ku, so they didn't scramble that.

[rainman]

From what I have read here about the problems people have with the little dishes, I don't agree. Setting up a big dish is relatively easy. One of the reasons is that there is no confusion about just which direction they are aiming, which is often confused by dish mounts with angle scales that aren't accurate, or made for another dish. Big dishes usually have flat surfaces that are parallel to the rotation axis, and parallel (or perpindicular) to the dish aim, and another flat surface to aim south. This makes it very easy to use an inclinometer to adjust your inclination and declination, and get very close to proper alignment before you even connect the wires to the thing. Usually, after adjusting angles with the inclinometer, and aiming south, I'm already aligned enough to see 8 or 10 sats. After that, I just peak the inclination, run the dish to the furthest west sat I can find, peak by rotating mount on the pole, and I am in general DONE. All takes about an hour, or at least it WOULD take an hour if I had one of those hand held meters back then. In actuality, there was a bit of running back and forth to where I could see a TV and change channels.
With these little dishes, there are several other confusing variables, such as the dishes offset angle, the motor shaft's offset angle, and the fact that from the look of these things, there is seldom a good surface to put an inclinometer on that is meaningful. So you have to trust the angle scales, which are often wrong.
Anyway, aligning a big dish, while technically the same process, is no harder, and in many ways easier than aligning a small dish.


I agree Bill setting up a bud seems to be a whole lot easier than a little dish.