Help with finding satellites

[breephd]

hello all. i am newbie. i need help understanding how to find satellites. i bought a fortec motorized unit. i hooked up the dish outside and i aimed it at something. this took me awhile. but eventually i figured out how to get the fortec to identify the transponder stuff.

it turned out to be AMC 4 (based on the channels i then saw). so, i went in and used the USAL function... and the dish moved out of whack. somehow. i don't know what happened. so, i can go up an manually find this satellite, but how do i tell my receiver that the satellite it is "seeing" is the AMC 4? and will the receiver be able to find all other satellites if it knows this one?

how do i know if amc4 is my true south satellite? i am in poughkeepsie ny, just above nyc.

[breephd]

i asked the receiver to pull in the AMC 4 signal... it said "bad or no signal" so, i went up to the sat dish and manually tuned in AMC 4 again. then, i rescanned it using the receiver and it was unable to lock into anything.

maybe i need to double check that the dish is extremely tight. i felt that it was, but maybe it isn't as perfect as i guess it may need to be? how precise does the dish set up need to be?

when i ask the receiver to scan in the same position for a satellite by the name of "IA 6" then it starts to find things. but, the channels are clearly AMC 4 channels?

this is very confusing.

[starman]

A google search of "longitude latitude poughkeepsie NY" showed you are located at 41.70N(latitude) and 73.92W(longitude). Your true south satellite is always your longitude location, that means SBS 6 is very close at 74 degrees and is your true south satellite. You can look at Lyngsat to check out satellite locations. Set your motor elevation to your latitude, roughly 42 degrees. You'll need to figure out the dish elevation and the compass heading to point the dish. Sadoun has a pretty good explaination of those things on his site.
Do NOT tighten things extremely tight, you will end up stripping bolts and twisting things out of shape...and alignment.
Set your receiver on SBS 6 and use a hot transponder. The only one I get here is the Ohio News Network. 11741H SR 6.616. Good luck, let us know how you are making out.

[breephd]

I bought a compass today. and i also got a pre-made rg6 cable that is long enough to make the whole "journey" to the receiver.

I see on the motor that latitude is written in the side of the metal... so that is fairly easy to adjust and get right. but i must say teh numbers are clos eto each other and so being exact or precise seems difficult.

You said "You'll need to figure out the dish elevation." can you tell me how i will go about doing this? also, do i tell the receiver that i know i have found sbs 6? why can't the receiver just automatically pick up the satellite that the dish is aiming at? maybe my receiver is low on the totem pole?

fortec classic na motorized system.

[starman]

Yes, the numbers on the motor scale are very close, I just get it as close as I can. Have you been here?: http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Installati...stallation.htm
It is a very good explaination of what you are trying to do.
The important points are:
plumb pole
motor scale set to latitude
dish elevation(set from Sadoun's site-above)
Make sure motor is set to zero
Line up the dish and motor on the pole to your true south heading, as close as you can. Put the receiver in USALS mode and select SBS6, make sure you have the transponder I gave you selected in the receiver.
After you've done all this, chances of you being right on SBS 6 are pretty slim, you are going to have to search for the signal, move the dish, motor on the pole very slightly, in each direction until you get some quality. You may have to increase/decrease the elevation slightly till you find signal. It takes a LOT of patience but once you find SBS 6 you will have the rest of the satellites using USALS.
Once you have the dish aligned with the arc, you don't need to tell the receiver anything, just select the satellite you want to go to and USALS does the rest.

[breephd]

hello! starman, i used the compass to find south and then i looked on the manual for the motor elevation - it as 23.5. and was able to then tune in SBS6! first try and i got it! i am currently watching ONN! i used to live in ohio so this is neat.
the signal is of okay quality. there also seems to be some religious station on this satellite - but this is not listed on lyngsat. can you confirm that i have the right bird? my receive is picking up 2 channels one is religious and one is ONN.

OK, now here is the big question: WHAT THE HECK DO I DO NOW?
how do i tell the receiver to lock this in as sbs6? i am worried, because if i go in to usals, i have a sneaking feeling that the dish is gonna move - start to motor around for no reason.

[breephd]

OK this is very very frustrating.

i went into the usals function, and i put in all of the info. then it said "Please wait while the dish moves to SBS 6!"

GOSH DARN IT, that's where the dish was. how d i tell the receiver = i have already found sbs6 and that's what is currently being received?

why did it move the dish in order to find what was already locked in?
i went up and use the "manual" button on the dish motor to refind SBS 6. now i came down and asked the receiver to go to AMC 6 - which seems close to sbs6. it moved the dish, but when i tried to scan AMC6, i got nothing.

do i need to reset everything and start from scratch? my pole is straight and i did the elevation and latitude stuff as exactly as i could!

[starman]

That's great!, if you are seeing ONN, you are on SBS 6. You need to select usals mode so the receiver can move the dish to the exact sbs6 position, that may improve the so-so signal. Did you go into the usals setup and input your longitude and latitude values? That needs to be in there or usals won't work. I'm not familiar with that receiver so can't tell you how to do that. Hopefully someone else will help.
Once in usals mode, select another satellite, pick one close to sbs6, and see if you can get quality on any of the transponders.

[starman]

We were both posting at the same time, hehe. Did the dish move very far when you went to usals mode? If not, you can move the motor/dish on the mast back to sbs6

[breephd]

i was able to move it back to sbs6 manually by climbing on the roof again. but i tried to go to amc6 and so far "no dice." i am doing a full scan on what i think is AMC6. at least that's what i asked the system to go to. but still nothing so far.
should i try another sat?
if i am reading the soudon instructions correct, i can infer that my true south is off. that i do not have a perfect alignment. so, i guess my question is, how do i make sure i have true south? i mean i was aiming at the sbs6, and i did get the signal... so how could i be off? i was aiming at the correct bird! i thought they would all fall into place at this point... could the arc of the dish be off somehow? i swear i made it as exact as i could.

i am now trying to get AMC5... Nada. zilch.

this is frustrating. i thought i had it! am i at least close? the soudon instructions don't say what to do if one's true south is not accurate. the instructions just go into some other FAQs.

starman are u out there? anybody. help. i am sitting here not knowing what to do next.

[starman]

You are very close. I wonder if there is a problem with that receiver keeping an accurate reference point, I"ve read a few posts of other people reporting that.
You might want to set everything back to where you get SBS 6 and then use Diseqc1.2 mode. Just nudge the dish toward AMC5 to the west or AMC6 to the east. Hot transponders on those birds are:
AMC5 11742V SR 11.110 UEN
AMC6 12142V SR 2.523 Gospel Broadcast Network
Once you see you are on the arc, you will need to assign motor positions(a number) for each satellite. You do that in the receiver setup. This is how Diseqc1.2 works, you have to manually find each satellite and store it. kind of like a standard transmission, you do all the work, Usals is like an automatic, find your true south bird and it finds the rest. Again, I'm not familiar with that receiver so can't help with the storing proceedure.

[breephd]

hmmm. maybe diseq is the way to go.

i just spent 2 full hours out on my roof. i took the receiver out with me, and a small tv. i am always able to find sbs6, i even got my receiver to accept it as the reference point. but, when i tried to get AMC5, which is close to SBS6, i was unable to get a signal. And then, when i asked the receiver to go back to sbs6, no signal. something is wrong.

my hat is off to those of you who have done this. i can't imagine the day when my receiver is able to motor around to different satellites. at the moment, it seems like an extremely difficult, if not close to impossible task.

i am going to try to think over the issue. the weather has been real nice lately, but that could change at anytime. if it does, i won't be able to fiddle with it as i have been this week. maybe it will just be that i will only get the ohio news network, and tat'll be it. $350 on all the stuff to get one channel! ha! well, it is a neat channel i guess.

thanks for your help. i may have to disassemble the whole shebang and start from the beginning.

[rainman]

no don't disassemble it you are close if you are getting sbs6 which is your true south =D> sat all you need to do is a few minor adjustments to receive all the sats remember a 1/16 of inch movement at the dish is a long way when you are trying to hit a sat 23000 miles away. :mozilla_smile:

[breephd]

i definitely have sbs6. the problem is: when the dish moves, everything is lost.

i looked at teh pictures for a sample installation on the sadoun site. it shows the dish bracket mounted very low to the motor. almost at the very bottom tip of the motor shaft. is this exactly how it must be done? the photo on the motor install guide i have shows a bit of the shaft sticking out of the bottom.

i don't understand how it is possible to adjust such a clunky contraption to be precise to within 1 degree of anything, or 1/16th of an inch. it is not possible from my perspective looking at it and my experience thus far. in order to be that precise, the whole thing would need more preices measurements and a way to exactly know the exact line the bolt is crossing, etc. for me the tip of the bolt obscures the actual lines for elevation. it is a guess that i am near where i am supposed to be. but, i do get sbs6. i can get it with my eyes closed. but, as soon as the dish moves... it gets nothing again. and all my bolts are tight.

[rainman]

when you get sbs6 adjust dish and motor to get the highest quality sig possible. move dish up and down don't worry about the scale this is to get you close for final adjustment. also when moving east to west move motor and dish on the pole together. remember small movements and alow time for signal to change. :mozilla_smile:

[starman]

Yea, they are kind of clunky, but they work when they are setup on the arc and will require very little maintenance. Did you set your longitude to west in the usals setup? Some receivers default to east, must be a European thing. You didn't answer my question about how far the dish is moving when you put the receiver in usals with sbs 6 selected? If its a lot, like zooming all the way to the west or east, there may be a problem with the receiver that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. I looked at the fortecstar site and there is an update for the na dated Dec 22/05. You might want to look in your receiver and see what version you have on it.

[breephd]

"how far the dish is moving when you put the receiver in usals with sbs 6 selected?"

originally, the dish was moving way to the west -- after i had trained it on sbs6. it would say "please wait while dish moves to sbs6." i really need to make sure the receiver is asking me east or west. eventually though, i was able to get it to stay on sbs6, instead of moving for it.

however, i would then ask the receiver to go to amc5 or 6. i forget which one. it is close to sbs6. it moved the dish ever so slightly, but then no signal. also, when the dish moves, the arm and the dish kind of twist a little bit. what i mean to say is that the lnbf arm is not perfectly in the center as the whole thing moves to try to find other sats.

if the rain stops tonight, i will go up and use a level to make sure the motor is level on the mast. i don't think i can put teh dish assembly lower on the motor's shaft, because there is one hole that allows me to attach teh motor to the dish mount. and then there is a sleeve of sorts that squeezes the motor shaft.

last night, i took a small tv out to the roof, and i played around. when the receiver thought it had trained on sbs6 - i moved the whole thing so that it was in fact trained on sbs6. but if i tried to move to any other sat - i got no signal. and when i asked it to retyurn to sbs6 - no signal.

here is a question: is it possible to aim at sbs6, get it perfectly, but still have the whole dish assembly be out of alignment? and if the answer is yes. how do i rectify that?

secondly: how do i discover what firmware version is loaded in my receiver?

[starman]

here is a question: is it possible to aim at sbs6, get it perfectly, but still have the whole dish assembly be out of alignment? and if the answer is yes. how do i rectify that?

Yes, it is possible. If your motor is not on 0 when you start then you won't get other satellites. In your situation, if the motor is set at zero and you are pointing the dish-motor on the mast to true south(and your dish elevation is correct) then you will be looking at sbs6. If at this point you put your receiver in usals and select sbs6, the motor might move the dish just a tiny bit, maybe not at all. Make sure the longitude number you entered in the usals setup is accurate and set to west.
When you are getting sbs6(with your motor at zero) push on one side then the other side of the dish and see if the quality increases or decreases. If the quality increases, move the dish/motor on the pole in that direction, do the same thing with the elevation, push up and down on the dish and adjust the dish(not motor)elevation till you get the best signal.

secondly: how do i discover what firmware version is loaded in my receiver?

Well, in the Pansat 2500a I have, it is under system information. It should give you the firmware version and the date it was released.

You mentioned checking the pole for plumb, thats a good idea, sometimes its plumb before installing the dish but after, the weight of the motor dish will move it out of plumb.