Trying to understand the info in LyngSat for FTA

[satnutwillb]

Are there any ZK chs. besides the music chs?

[wejones]

Originally Posted by satnutwillb

Are there any ZK chs. besides the music chs?

I don't think there are many, if any. Years ago, the KET channels on AMC1 were ZK, but that was like 10 years ago, and I haven't tuned them in since. About a year ago, someone suggested that only the music channels were ZK, and I tried to find an exception, and did, but I think it was a promo type channel or something. Most free DCII are FP.

[satnutwillb]

Thanks wejones for the info.

[Admin]

Here is a link to guide for Lyngsat tables
Lyngsat Quick Guide

[teched]

Originally Posted by Admin

Here is a link to guide for Lyngsat tables
Lyngsat Quick Guide

Unfortunately that page and "Free To Air FTA Satellite Channels from USA, Europe, Middle East, Asia Arabic, Chinese, Persian, Turkish, Kurdish TV Telstar5 (IA5) Television" can lead people to misunderstand that Digicipher channels are FTA and receivable with FTA equipment, such as a Mercury II.

[Sadoun]

No, because the signal type must be DVB for the DVB FTA receiver (such as Mercury II ) to receive it. Some of the Digicipher channels are FTA but only receivable with Digicipher II capable receiver such as the 4DTV.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Sadoun

No, because the signal type must be DVB for the DVB FTA receiver (such as Mercury II ) to receive it. Some of the Digicipher channels are FTA but only receivable with Digicipher II capable receiver such as the 4DTV.

I think that you don't understand. What you say above is exactly what I think he is trying to say, and what I've said in several posts in the past. Ie I think that your web page makes it sound like the "F" on Lyngsat refers to FTA, and that is DEFINATELY misleading to newcomers to your site, because there have been numerous people who have asked questions on this forum, regarding why they can't pick up DCII signals when they have the "F" . I really think that it would be best for you to modify your web page to explain what you say above, ie that the "F" at Lyngsat ONLY means FTA if the signal is DVB.

I think that the way it is worded now on your web page, it would seem to be false advertising with respect to the capability of the receivers you are selling, because you are in effect telling potential customers that they can use an FTA receiver to pick up DCII signals that are listed in Lyngsat with an "F".

Anyway, I agree with teched .

[Sadoun]

Bill

What are you saying? I guess I am confused. Those channels are FTA if they have F don't they?

I think I explained correctly above about DCII, didn't I? I will take a look at the page(s) you are refering to and try to make it clearer.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Sadoun

Bill

What are you saying? I guess I am confused. Those channels are FTA if they have F don't they?

I think I explained correctly above about DCII, didn't I? I will take a look at the page(s) you are refering to and try to make it clearer.

For example, look at the 12110 or 12140 MUX on AMC3.
AMC 3 at 87.0°W - LyngSat

Both of these have an "F" on them, but they are not FTA in the sense that they can be received with a DVB FTA receiver. Ie as you say above, you need a DCII receiver such as a 4DTV or a commercial DCII receiver like a DSR 4200V to receive them. These FP channels that are really encrypted. There are other types of DCII channels that are unencrypted ZK, that can be received by generic DCII receivers, but still not receivable by a DVB FTA receiver.
It's really Lyngsat that is at fault here, as I think they should designate their channels differently, but the way Lyngsat does it now, you can't really say that a channel with an "F" is FTA. It's more that it is free if you have the right receiver, which includes not only FTA, but also FP and ZK DCII signals.

EDIT: I should have referred to my post #29 above, which explains what I was trying to say better.

[Sadoun]

BILL

I think we are in agreement...

[wejones]

There are several places on the web page that could use clarification, however the two most important examples are in your FAQ, where you say:
"
Where can I find out what channels are available free to air?
There are many free to air channels available in North America on satellites such as Galaxy 10R, AMC4, Telstar 5, AMC3, etc. These channels are from the USA and from around the world. See North & South America - LyngSat for a complete listing of what is available. Anything with an designation is FREE TO AIR.
"

I think this needs to be changed to say that this only applies to DVB signals.

Also in the Lyngsat Quick Guide teched referred to, this also lables the as meaning FTA. I think I remember seeing a few other places where the web page said that anything with the was FTA.

[teched]

From Free To Air FTA Satellite Channels from USA, Europe, Middle East, Asia Arabic, Chinese, Persian, Turkish, Kurdish TV Telstar5 (IA5) Television

"Are you interested in watching free to air Free To Air (FTA) TV from all over the world? If so, we have all the necessary equipment here at Sadoun Satellite Sales. There is no monthly fees. One time purchase price and you own the equipment."

Under American TV these DCII are channels listed:
Florida Education Channel
Florida Knowledge
Florida Lottery
Georgia Public Broadcasting
LPB - Louisiana Public
NET-Nebraska Public TV
KET, The Kentucky Network

Lyngsat Quick Guide makes no mention of Digicipher and it would seem to indicate that all "digital/clear"/"F" listings are Free-to-Air. It seems reasonable to think that a Free-to-Air receiver can receive such marked channels when nothing else is presented to distinguish differences in Free-to-Air channels.

Which receiver does Digicipher II? "If so, we have all the necessary equipment here at Sadoun Satellite Sales."

If the position is that there is "DCII-FTA" and "DVB-FTA" then "FTA" (Free-to-Air) alone should be used to describe both "DCII-FTA and DVB-FTA" together not "DCII-FTA or DVB-FTA".

[Sadoun]

Yep, you are right. These channels are on DCII which we don't carry the equipment (i.e. 4DTV receivers, but we can get and sell it to you if you are interesed?). We will update the list of channels. Thanks for pointing this out.

[ohiosteve]

I'm new here, but far from new to satellite communications.

What I would like to know is how the term FTA became the equal and same as DVB FTA?

There has been many posts here concerning the false information listed in lyngsat concerning the "F" in their listings.

That F does in fact mean FTA. FTA stands for Free to Air. Which is exactly the same meaning as In the Clear.

Saduun is correct in his statement that just because it says F doesn't necessarily mean it will be receivable using a DVB MPeg II reciever. That is where the confusion is coming in. But, that confusion is in the minds of some members here.

For the record, PowerVu is not an encryption method, necessarily. It is more of a modulation format. Just like there is a difference between DVBS and DVB-S2. Neither are encryptions, they are modulation formats, just like 8PSK is. Some powervu is encrypted just like some 8PSK is and just like some DVB MPeg II is encrypted. Nagravision is a form of encrypting the MPeg signal. This also applies to DCII and VCII. Those formats can be sent unencrypted just like they can be sent encrypted. Just because the listing says it is DCII or PowerVu doesn't mean it is "scrambled" in some way - it only means that you need a box that will support that modulation format or bit stream in order to view it.

As for those who don't want to watch Ku FTA and want more television, there IS always C Band FTA. There is a whole lot of FTA Mpeg II on C Band as well. In fact, there is probably a little more there.

If you guys will notice, at the far right side of each line in lyngsat there is an update date listed. This is the last time that information was updated by a viewer. That will tell you if this information is to be considered valid today or not. TPs change from time to time and programming changes on a continuous basis. That update date is a good clue as to whether the information is current.

SatcoDX is a horse of a different color. Since this was mentioned earlier as not showing the same information as lyngsat - there are far more mistakes and ommitted information there than on lyngsat.

And since someone mentioned the "wildfeeds" - the grey lines in lyngsat - you will find many times stations and networks will be displaying a bar with tone pattern before or after a broadcast - PLEASE do NOT call the phone number listed on the screen! We have lost tons of feeds in the past because those owners didn't realize how many people were watching their feeds - espeically the news feeds and syndicated tv feeds. If they feel that everyone is watching them, some of them will begin using encryption, we don't want this to happen. Also some networks feel this is illegal to watch, even though it isn't.

I just wanted to clarify some things which I feel some were confused about. I'm sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes as I didn't mean to.

I'm also sorry about the extra long post, but that's my trademark on other forums - I think. LOL

Steve
Northern Ohio

Edited note: If you guys are interested in DCII - you will need a 4dtv receiver - if interested in VCII (not much there anymore, but there are a few VCII FTA still around) - then you'll need a regular Big Dish reciever with a VCII card inserted inside. The cards are very cheap on ebay and other places. You will want the boards (cards) which are NOT black. The black ones are only VC and most are dead now because the batteries have drained out. You also can get a big dish receiver and then purchase a 4dtv sidecar at a lower cost to get DCII. The 4dtv receivers will recieve VCII as well if you put in the VCII board/card.

[Sadoun]

Steve

Nice post and welcome to the forum. Great explanation and very informative.

Did I mention WELCOME TO THE FORUM.

[Muad'Dib]

GREEN means HD, and its mpeg2 8psk there.
The others are "normal" DVB-S mpeg2. And crypted.

I can see no problems.

[Powrline]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

All premium movie channels are subs (encrypted) except the MPEG4 feeds on 148. I can not verify they are in the clear as I do not have a MPEG4 receiver. All of the movie channels have free preview times from time to time in hopes of enticing those of us with the equipment to view these previews to sub.

Is there a MPEG 4 receiver on the market and has anyone tried it out yet?

I am guessing that MPEG 4 is going to be the new standard when it is in place on more sats, or maybe just for subscription DBS, (dish net. etc...)

I remember having a discussion about MPEG 4 but not sure of the outcome.

Thanks
Bill

[Muad'Dib]

MPEG4 aka H.264 is already the new standard.
DVB-S2 here in europe.

[spongella]

In addition to Lyngsat, you can go to www.skyvision.com website, they have a nice table of Ku band satellite reception from 72W to 129W. For my old brain their layout is easy to understand.