Mixing FTA with Dish Network

[SeaDawg]

I'm wondering.....

Now that I have my system running, I intended on going to an OTA antenna for our local tv broadcasts but to not want to install a huge yagi so we can get good reception. I've tried the Terk 44 and you can forget that. If we went with the lowest cost Dish Network system to get local programming it will still saves us $30.00 per month that we are now paying in rediculous cable charges.

Is it possible to piggy back a dish network receiver with my FTA receiver and existing 36" motorized dish? It seems I could connect the Dish receiver to the IF feed through from the FTA receiver, use the FTA receiver to move the dish to the EchoStar bird then just use a switch to switch in the Dish receiver. Of course, if I had a receiver that would take the dish smartcard, that would be better. What about the LNBF? I may be all wet on this. Just trying to get Cox Cable off my back. As soon as my town goes WiFi in a few months I can drop the Cox High Speed Internet. Then I'll be truly free from cable!!!

I'd like to hear some comments on this even if I'm all wet.

Thanks.

[Corey]

Problem you'd run into there is that at least some of Dish Network's satellites use circular instead of linear polarization.

But otherwise, I have the same setup. I dumped cable for OTA antenna + Dish receiver + FTA dish and receiver. I also now how an ATSC tuner hooked up to the OTA antenna. But it is a big ol' yagi, unfortunately. On the other hand, once the analog NTSC signals go off the air, the yagis will be smaller, because I think all of the channels will be on UHF.

[glen4cindy]

You would be much better off using a Torridal dish if you want to "piggyback" an LNB to your FTA dish. One problem is that the focus of the dish really only lends to 1 LNB. If you "strap" another LNB to the side of your FTA LNB you would have to "find" the best place to point the dish to get the best signal on your DishNet LNB. Finally, this would also lock you into not being able to use your FTA if anyone was watching E*.

I also don't know if a dishnet receiver is properly equipped to handle the DiSEqC switch that would be necessary to run the circular LNB and the linear LNB down the same wire.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Corey

Problem you'd run into there is that at least some of Dish Network's satellites use circular instead of linear polarization.

But otherwise, I have the same setup. I dumped cable for OTA antenna + Dish receiver + FTA dish and receiver. I also now how an ATSC tuner hooked up to the OTA antenna. But it is a big ol' yagi, unfortunately. On the other hand, once the analog NTSC signals go off the air, the yagis will be smaller, because I think all of the channels will be on UHF.

I've been running my ATSC tuner off a big VHF antenna too, and it never worked all that well, however I recently picked up a nice little UHF only antenna, that is MUCH smaller than the big VHF antenna, and it works GREAT with the ATSC tuner. Since I'm getting local channels via DTV anyway, I'm just about ready to take down the big old antenna. It doesn't work worth a darn anymore anyway, since it's been bent out of shape by tree limbs and such. But anyway, I don't think you have to wait till the analog signals go away. The UHF digital signals are pretty much all in place already. I would terminate the DTV locals, and tear down my VHF antenna right now, except for the fact that I can't get the PBS digital signal where I live. The PBS transmitter is about 1/10th the power of the networks for some reason ($s I assume).

[SeaDawg]

Corey, glen4cindy:

I have a QPH301 quad LNB. It has 2 Linear and 2 Circular outputs. When I use a Circular output, the motor rotates the dish by a 6° offset so all I have to do is offest the USALS setting by 6° to bring it back. I've already done this and know it works. So it seems all I'd have to do is setup the FTA receiver (Fortec Star 5400 NA) to point at the Echo bird using the circular output from the LNB, then switch in the DishNet receiver. Does that sound correct?

I think it might be worth experimenting with an ATSC tuner as well just to see what I can get OTA. To be honest, I have not been keeping up with the pending changes in OTA so I need to find out what ATSC broadcasts are available here.

Thanks.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by SeaDawg

I think it might be worth experimenting with an ATSC tuner as well just to see what I can get OTA. To be honest, I have not been keeping up with the pending changes in OTA so I need to find out what ATSC broadcasts are available here.

Go to http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html

Enter your location, and it will tell you what OTA stations are in your area.
The output will list actual digital stations as "DT", and will give you info about the wattage, and location of the transmitter. If you click on the callsign at the left, it takes you to a more detailed info page, which also has links to Tiger maps showing whether you are within range of the transmitter.

[reho33]

I have the Invacom Quad and I don't have a 6 degree offset. 91 circular has same position as 91 linear ( Nimiq 1 and 2) ( Galaxy 11). Circular and linear in the same throat of LNB so wheres the offset?

[rainman]

Originally Posted by reho33

I have the Invacom Quad and I don't have a 6 degree offset. 91 circular has same position as 91 linear ( Nimiq 1 and 2) ( Galaxy 11). Circular and linear in the same throat of LNB so wheres the offset?

I think it's in his motor reho the sm3d22.

[SeaDawg]

Correct, it's the motor that moves the dish by 6° when I switch between the Circular and Linear outputs.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by SeaDawg

Correct, it's the motor that moves the dish by 6° when I switch between the Circular and Linear outputs.

I'm curious whether anyone has tried the "fix" for this, which was supposed to be sending a binary sequence to the motor. I don't have one of these motors, so I had no need to investigate, but I was curious that no-one seemed to question how this binary sequence could be sent.

Ie sending this sequence isn't something that is easy to do with the equipment/software that most of us have. I did a little googling, and found a reference to the DVBDream program supposedly having the capability of sending a raw stream over the diseqC system (with a computer receiver of course), but I have no idea of whether it would work for this or not.

Anyway, just an academic question,,,,, has anyone figured out a way of sending raw data to their H-H motors???

[Corey]

Originally Posted by wejones

I've been running my ATSC tuner off a big VHF antenna too, and it never worked all that well, however I recently picked up a nice little UHF only antenna

My OTA antenna is a combined UHF and VHF antenna and it works great. I probably will replace it with a UHF-only antenna when NTSC goes off the air, for aesthetic reasons if nothing else.

Originally Posted by wejones

But anyway, I don't think you have to wait till the analog signals go away. The UHF digital signals are pretty much all in place already.

My other restriction is that I have my TiVo tuning NTSC OTA broadcasts + Dish Network, so I can't rely on ATSC only just yet. At some point, my TiVo will be used only to record Dish channels.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by Corey

My OTA antenna is a combined UHF and VHF antenna and it works great. I probably will replace it with a UHF-only antenna when NTSC goes off the air, for aesthetic reasons if nothing else.

...

Actually, my big antenna is UHF/VHF too, but the UHF portion never worked all that well even though it has as many elements or more than my new UHF only one. Perhaps it's just old. Perhaps too many tree limbs fell on it (it's under a pine tree limb that when there is snow/ice, the limbs come down on the antenna, and bend it up a bit. The big one is up about 20-25', but my new little UHF one is mounted on a pole stuck in the ground, only 4' off the ground, and it works MUCH better.

I'm going to take down the big one and put the little one up on the high pole.

[CROSSBOLT]

I read MOST of the posts on this and I think I have the idea. Please steer me if I am wrong:

Get the Sadoun 4x1 DiSeqC switch, put it between the motor and the LNBF and LNB, run the Direct TV Hughes rcvr off the IF port on the FTA rcvr, set one rcvr to channel 3 and the other to channel 4, do whatever has to be done to switch between the two. Right? Later I can get a twin mount and have both on the 30" dish and figure out the lateral offset to bullseye the bird at 101W. How my doin' so far?

16 bucks for the switch I bet the freight is more than the item.

Karl

[SeaDawg]

Sounds right.

I am remiss for not updating my success with my setup. Just as I suspected. I installed the DishNet basic family pack with local channels.

Here is my setup.

Dish output (from quad lnb) to FTA receiver.
IF feed through from FTA receiver to DishNet receiver.
DishNet receiver output back to FTA antenna/cable input.
FTA output to TV.

Works great. I move the dish (using FTA receiver) to 110° or 119° depending on what I want to watch on DishNet then switch off FTA receiver and switch on DishNet. When I want to watch FTA, I just switch off Dishnet and switch on FTA and select desired FTA channel. The only negative with this is that the DishNet receiver has to reacquire the signal and setup the channel guide. No big deal, though.

That's it. Drives my wife nuts though but that's the best part.

[CROSSBOLT]

Thanks, SeaDawg! I think I got enough to be dangerous! The confirmation that the IF output will make sense to the Dish receiver is what I needed. I see your graphic has youas a squared away skivvy waver! I was in the "Nav" too.

Karl

[SeaDawg]

Well, Karl, I must confess. Although I was squared away I was not a squared away skivvy waver. I was a squared away AvTech and served aboard carriers for my stints at sea. I did, however, have a lot of friends that were members of the signal bridge crew and I had no problem reading signal lights (I learned Morse code when I was 14). I got out of the navy in '87 and tried to go back in '90 intending on changing rates to QM but even after passing all requirements for re-enlistment it was only then that I was told "Sorry, we're not currently taking prior service".

I found the avatar image on the web somewhere and thought "That's a cool image, I'm using it."

So, here I am in Tucson writing software applications for advanced web sites. I do sail but don't have much opportunity for that anymore living in the desert.

Have fun with your system!!

[cwmorrow]

What is the make and model of the ATSC tuner?

[wejones]

Originally Posted by cwmorrow

What is the make and model of the ATSC tuner?

If that question is aimed at me, since I mentioned an ATSC tuner, the tuner I'm using is called an Air2PC, or something like that. The drivers are from a company called Technisat or something like that. Someone was selling them on Ebay. I don't know what model, but I know that there was apparently a newer more sensitive model, but this one was cheap, and seems to work fine. I don't use it very often though, because I don't have an