New and Need Help

Marine JAG · #1 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 07:46 AM

Hi! This is my first post, although I've been looking around for the past month or so. I've been attempting to figure out what is wrong with my system so I can fix it. I like to fix things myself whenever possible.

I have a SuperDish that picks up 105, 110, and 119. For the past two years it has been working great, however, over the past month I started losing the 119 sat even transponders... even thought the sat signal is really strong. I've checked all the wiring and after having read some of the threads on this site I'm think the heat has done something to the LNBF.

Here are two pictures of my system:

I'm about 99% sure that the LNBF on the right in the second photo is the one that picks up the 119 but I want to be sure that I'm correct before I buy a new one. The LNBF on the left in the second photo with the glass eye and small cone seems to be the one that picks up 105 and 110.

Can anyone reassure me before I spend the money on new parts? By the way, when looking at LNBFs online, I have never seen the one I have with the glass eye and cone? Does anyone know what that one is and why I never see it for sale?

Any help would be great. Thanks!

- William

Reinhold · #2 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 10:01 AM

This site is FTA,your equipment is DISH NETWORK.Why not call them,I am sure they will be happy to help you out.
Reinhold.

Marine JAG · #3 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 10:06 AM

I'm sorry. I guess I don't read as well as you. I could have sworn the forum was titled "Dish Network".

wejones · #4 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine JAG

I'm sorry. I guess I don't read as well as you. I could have sworn the forum was titled "Dish Network".

No, you're in the right place. I think some people read "new posts" and don't realize that posts aren't coming from the FTA sections.

Is it only the even transponders on the 119, or are the other sats affected too? Ie, it may not be the LNBF. Some of those dishnet systems have rather complicated freq shift systems whereby signals from some sats are shifted to higher freqs, then converted again after coming down the coax. I think, depending on which system you have, it could be the switch that's at fault.
I don't have dishnet, but have looked at my neighbor's 2 systems, and there seem to be several different types of systems, each of which would have different symptoms. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable about Dishnet will respond. I just wanted you to know this is a good place to ask the question.

Marine JAG · #5 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 11:52 AM

Thanks. I thought I was in the right place. It is only the even transponders that go out. They do come back in the evening after the temperature outside has cooled down. I have tested the switch as best as I can without any special equipment (unpluged all the LNBFs, ran check switch to clear the switch, pluged the LNBFs back in, ran check switch again). That is how I determined which LNBF was being used for the 119 sat.

wejones · #6 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine JAG

Thanks. I thought I was in the right place. It is only the even transponders that go out. They do come back in the evening after the temperature outside has cooled down. I have tested the switch as best as I can without any special equipment (unpluged all the LNBFs, ran check switch to clear the switch, pluged the LNBFs back in, ran check switch again). That is how I determined which LNBF was being used for the 119 sat.

I'm not familiar with the Dishpro things. My neighbor has a superdish that does 3 sats, and I'm somewhat familiar with that one, but your dishpro thing is different, so I'm no help. It looks like the fancy dishpro switching is done inside that LNBF on the right. If you had an FTA receiver, like a Twinhan, you could plug in either of the other two, and verify whether it was receiving odd and even channels, but I'd be hesitant to do that downstream of the switch.
Hopefully someone who knows more about those band-stacking things (or whatever they're called) can help. I've recently dealt with similar problems on my DTV system (lost 2 receivers, one lost one voltage and could only receive even transponders, the other receiver lost all LNBF voltage, and I had to slave it off another receiver), but the DTV systems are more simple.

But the symptom you refer to, ie working at night, does sound like it could be the LNBF, but I'm not sure how to be certain that it isn't the switch.

Berling Sizemore · #7 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 04:15 PM

Ok here is what I know Dishpro 500 will work with an FTA. Not sure about the superdish. Pansats like the one I use have an option to change the lnb type. Alternativly you can scan vertical only transponders. I am not sure if this due to a set up issue.

If it just stopted working then yea I would have to say your lnbf sounds toasted. Or a switch.

Marine JAG · #8 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 04:30 PM

Thanks. In that the system worked great for two years... and the sat signals are all strong... I'm assuming something got toasted.

From reading other posts, I need to exclude the switch as being the problem. This evening I will bypass the DP34 and go straight from the receiver to what I believe is the 119 lnbf (the DishPro Dual lnbf). If I get all the 119s then I can assume my DP34 is not working properly. If I have the same problem with only the even transponders going out, then I'll guess I have a toasted lnbf.

Does this course of action seem right?

Thanks,

- William

Sadoun · #9 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 06:44 PM

Hi William and welcome on board

Yes, the LNBF on the right facing the dish is the one for 119. If you check switch tests find the signals OK, then I would suspect the LNBF maybe drifting.

Before you invest in a new LNBF, try adjusting the dish very slightly.

Marine JAG · #10 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 06:11 AM

Thanks Sadoun,

I checked the switch last night. (I bypassed the switch by going directly from the 119 LNBF to the receiver). Still had the same problem of not getting some of the even transponders on 119. Funny thing was, when I went to point dish, they were coming in strong on the meter (over 100). When I would attempt to watch one of the channels I would get a message saying that the 119 transponder 6 (for example) signal had been lost and was being reacquired... I'd go back to point dish screen and the transponder 6 on the 119 would have a strong signal.

It was so weird that I was going to take two pictures of it to post just to prove I wasn't seeing things... only when I got around to taking the pictures, it had cooled down enough outside to where I was getting the even transponders again... it is definitely a heat related issue. I guess I can either hold out until Fall or change out what ever is not operating correctly in the heat (most likely the LNBF).

Thanks again... if this is sounding more and more like the LNBF going bad, please let me know.

rainman · #11 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 08:15 AM

during the heat of the day when the signals gone apply a ice pack to the lnb and see if the signal come's back if it does it is a lnb problem.

Marine JAG · #12 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 09:13 AM

Rainman,

Cool idea! I'll give that a try this weekend!

Thanks,

- William

wejones · #13 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 09:47 AM

Should be a good experiment provided you can get the cooling just on the lnbf. Ie I'm not sure where the switches are on these things.
The symptoms to me could be either LNBF or SWITCH, particularly since the missing EVEN channels are the channels that are band-stacked and shifted to another freq after they leave the LNBF.
I don't know anything about the layout of these contraptions, but for a little more info about what is done inside, you might be interested in:

http://forums.satforums.com/SatForum...003.16#6003.16

{you might have to register with satforums to read this}

It explains how the even channels are moved up to higher freqs.

But I guess that downstream of the Dishpro circuitry, it's hard to tell if the problem is the LNBF or the dishpro switches and converters. I'm also not sure if running the cable directly from your receiver to the lnbf in question helps, because according to the above, the receivers apparently only supply one voltage, so the Dishpro circuitry must be responsible for providing the 13/18 polarity voltages, not the receiver (I'm not sure of this, but this is the way I read the above URL). I think that if you have access to an FTA receiver, and can bypass the Dishpro circuitry, and go direct to the LNBF with that, that you could verify that it is indeed the LNBF that is at fault.

Another thought I had, is that I wonder if rather than a temperature effect, that it might possibly be a brownout situation. Ie some places, in the summer with all the air conditioners running, the power line voltage goes down during the day, and comes up again at night. Just a thought. The temperature thing is more likely though. I once had an LNB switch freq by 20 MHz on me after a particularly hot day.

Marine JAG · #14 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 10:37 AM

Thanks! I'll check the site out. By the way, nice plane! The wife and I were stationed at Yokota AB near Tokyo Japan for a few years... got to wake up to the sound of a C-5 just about every morning...

wejones · #15 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine JAG

.... By the way, nice plane! The wife and I were stationed at Yokota AB near Tokyo Japan for a few years... got to wake up to the sound of a C-5 just about every morning...

I live under a military training route in the middle of no-where, and all sorts of planes fly over, usually at around 500' AGL, sometimes even lower. We've had A-10s, F-15s, F-16s, F-18s, F-14s, EA6bs, KC130s, P3s, C-17s, B1bs, harriers, and a variety of trainers. My main hobby now is taking pictures of them. These guys usually only fly during the daytime, so at least they don't wake us up, but it really gets your attention when a flight of several F-15s flys over at 500', 500kts. You don't hear them at all until they are right on you, and then ROAR! :-)

Iceberg · #16 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 02:39 PM

The Superdish did have some flaky LNBF's that goof up when it gets warm out. You may show 100 on the signal meter but nothing on the channels.

Call DIsh tech support and they can send out a new LNB to replace it. You then send the old one back. My grandma had the same issue with her Dish500 DishPro Twin. TP18 on 119 would go bad. Swapped it out and no issues for 2 years

Reinhold · #17 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 06:09 PM

Hey Marine Jag.
My apologies,I had my forums mixed up.
Reinhold.

Marine JAG · #18 (**permalink**) 08-13-2006, 08:49 AM

Reinhold - No problem... Thanks!

Well here is what I did... I took an icebag like so:

And put it on the LNB like so:

And everything starting working fine in about 10 minutes.

Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that it is time to get a new LNB for my 119 sat. I'm not sure that DishNetwork would send me a new one since I've had the system over two years but I'll call them anyway just to try.

Thanks for all the help.

I'll give an update when I put the LNB on.

- William