Ethical/Legal Question about FTA

mhoward · #1 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 02:31 PM

I have a ethical or legal question about FTA.

If I own a small breakfast/lunch restaurant where people might like to watch a news program like CNN, Bloomberg, FOX News, etc. Is it legal for me to set-up an FTA system to show my customers an unencoded FTA station like CNN (uncoded right now), or Bloomberg? Does the right to view unencoded satellite signals apply only to the viewer at home, or does it also apply to businesses?

I have read that some business owners have gotten themselves into trouble by using an extra receiver from their residential dishnet subscription to show CNN, FOX News etc. in their restaurants....it seems dishnet expects small business to pay a higher fee and purchace a commercial subscription. But, what if the channel is FTA?

Admin · #2 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 03:21 PM

Of course this is not a legal advice and you would have to ask your councel, but I wouldn't show (part-time FTA not intended as full time FTA) channels at a restaurant. But if the channel is intended as full time FTA, I don't see why not. I could be wrong.

It is better to get a subscription.

kevision · #3 (**permalink**) 06-30-2005, 11:35 PM

I'd very much suggest you go the subscription route. As a general rule, if the channel has a subscription counterpart, it would not be legal to show the FTA signal. Now for those channels that are designated FTA (like many IA5 channels) you would probably be ok.

While the commercial subscriptions are more, there is a financial reason for it, though it may be 'more fair' for larger business to pay it. it may be worth looking into if you can pay a commercial rate based on the size of your audience.

UPDATE: Also don't forget there are other commercial tv providers out there (LodgeNet for example). Try a google search of "free to guest programming". You may be able to find something reasonable.

bobkat · #4 (**permalink**) 07-01-2005, 01:40 PM

Here in Canada the issue of "public viewing" is complex from a legal standpoint. I have installed many Bell ExpressVu systems in restaurants and bars and although I don't activate the receivers I have a feeling that the owners simply "add another receiver" to their residential accounts. This is wrong of course since Bell ExpressVu has a commercial package; much higher priced as other folks pointed out above. The reasons for the higher price are copyright issues; stations like CNN and others feel that more people are going to be viewing their programming in a commercial establishment than a residential one; you can't deny this.

The term "public viewing" is in itself legally challenging. How does one define "public". I had a situation arise once when I installed Bell ExpressVu systems in five real estate offices owned by the same broker. ExpressVu wanted to charge the broker five separate commercial package fees. The broker objected for two reasons: all offices are owned by the same company, and second, a real estate office is not really "public" since it is mainly real estate agents (employees) that use the offices. I can see his point. One can't say the same thing about a bar or restaurant where anyone can walk in off the street.

My advice to mhoward would be to go with Dishnetwork or Directv and get a commercial subscription; just to have one less thing to worry about.

kat

PS: I have moved this thread to "Breakroom".

rid0617 · #5 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 12:52 AM

I would think full time FTA and no commercial counter part would be ok. Several satellite dealers here are advertising the ethnic channels on Telstar 5 as a means to sell satellite dishes. No body is paying the ethnic channel but the satellite dealer is making money off them. Now the problem we have I bet is enough people do this you'll see more FTA scramble.

mhoward · #6 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 01:07 PM

My thought was simply this:

It is perfectly legal to put up a pair of rabbit ears and show my OTA local stations. Why would it not also be legal to put up a satellite antenna and show any FTA broadcast?

(Here in Atlanta, TBS is local OTA, I would often show this channel for the Baseball games and for Headline News which they show in the early morning)

The commercial subscriptions are out of the question, I would simply remove the television before I would pay 100.00 per month for a commercial subscription.

kevision · #7 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 01:59 PM

I see what you are saying. However, FTA in this manner is not meant for public use. OTA is a broadcast and you can show that to whatever audience you want. FTA is not a broadcast.
like you mention, it is really a business decision. If you generate more customers as a result of showing CNN, then it should pay for itself. If not, then it is not worth it.

dishteam · #8 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 10:54 PM

I think these are all very valid points, But lets say a business owner of a car dealership is simply using a television channel as a courtesy to there customers as in say a Waiting room. How can the extra cost be justified, Lets face it you wouldn’t bring your car to a specific dealership just because he shows CNN while waiting. And thus not using it as a tool to increase profit, just simply a courtesy to the customer.

bobkat · #9 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevision

As a general rule, if the channel has a subscription counterpart, it would not be legal to show the FTA signal.

To me this makes a lot of sense. Remember that CNN has never been, to my knowledge, OTA; hence the name Cable News Network. I believe since its inception in the early 80's CNN has always been a pay channel, first via cable and now via satellite. So to show CNN in a restaurant using a FTA receiver would be wrong. As for local OTA channels I suppose that would be acceptable.

kat

bobkat · #10 (**permalink**) 07-02-2005, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhoward

It is perfectly legal to put up a pair of rabbit ears and show my OTA local stations. Why would it not also be legal to put up a satellite antenna and show any FTA broadcast?

That's a very valid question. It seems that until the satellite dish came along nobody cared too much about this whole issue. I can remember growing up in Toronto in the 60's and early 70's everybody used an OTA antenna (some with rotors) and you could tune in three Buffalo, NY stations; VHF channels 2, 4 and 7. In fact, Channel Master even made an antenna called the model "247" which was engineered to offer high gain on those channels. Nobody cared that this was "foreign" programming. Now with satellite technology both Directv and Dishnetwork satellite signals "spill over" the border into Canada and all of a sudden its "illegal" to receive this "foreign" programming... :mozilla_surprised: Makes no sense really, and yet in 2002 the Supreme Court of Canada made it a criminal offense to receive Directv and Dishnetwork signals in Canada, whether you pay for it or not. Seems that satellite technology has impacted the legal system in a rather big way.

kat

mhoward · #11 (**permalink**) 07-06-2005, 03:00 PM

That is very interesting regarding US TV in Canada. I assume that some ExpressView and BEV? signals spill into the US. Is it also illegal to receive signals/have such a subscription here in the US? If I had a BUD would it be illegal for me to watch the FTA CBC channels on Anik?

I was just looking at the DW Tv's website. It seems that DW actually encourages hotels to receive their FTA signals and show them in their guestrooms/TV lounge.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...134412,00.html

Just for the record--I do not at present receive any FTA televison in any restaurant. My fiancee is renting a very small cafe/convenience shop inside an office complex. The cafe has an existing cable line that goes from a television stand to what was a dish on the roof. So far, she has a television that shows local programming while people buy their morning coffee/pastry or their afternoon Coke/Sandwich. Mostly she has it tuned to a local news broadcast or TBS baseball, or a CNN Headline News Broadcast that TBS shows at 5:00am. (Again, TBS is local OTA in Atlanta).
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bobkat · #12 (**permalink**) 07-06-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhoward

That is very interesting regarding US TV in Canada. I assume that some ExpressView and BEV? signals spill into the US. Is it also illegal to receive signals/have such a subscription here in the US? If I had a BUD would it be illegal for me to watch the FTA CBC channels on Anik?

Yes, the signals from Nimiq 1 & 2 (Bell ExpressVu's birds) spill over into the States and right into northern Mexico (at least on Nimiq 1). The U.S. government has no rules banning Canadian satellite signals in the U.S. but Bell ExpressVu's corporate policy prohibits U.S. residents from taking out subscriptions. As for CBC on C-band it would be legal since its FTA.

kat