A few Thoughts on Hackers and Banning...

[Bibbler]

</RANT MODE ON>

During the past few years that I have been involved in FTA, I notice that moderators on this and other FTA forums are quick to push the "Ban" button and close the thread...

Why it is understandable that our forum (and others) in no way support hacking, I believe the poster should receive an education in FTA prior to banning. Perhaps we could develop a brief description of exactly what FTA is and isn't, direct the user to that script, and let them decide if FTA is for them.

I firmly believe that most new users have NO idea what FTA is. As a matter of fact when my friends see my system and I tell them it's FTA. ALL of them (with NO exceptions) ask me something like "Aren't you afraid of getting caught"????

This is kinda the same feeling I get when people see my Linear Amp on my Amateur Radio Station and ask my if I am afraid of getting caught with an "Illegal Amp"...

Indeed, search ebay for "FTA" and you'll find hundreds if not thousands of 18" DTV dishes for sale with the label "18" FTA Dish".... What do you expect "Newbees" to think?????

I agree there are some jerks out there looking for a "free ride" - However, I believe that there are many more potential new users who would be interested in this hobby if they understood exactly what it is.... FTA has much to offer, and it seems a shame to simply delete any user interested in Satellite TV without giving them the information to decide if they want to take advantage of all this hobby has to offer....

For the record, TRUE FTA has a bad rap. Google FTA and you'll either find hacker posts or "FTA is just religious and arabic stations" .... No one mentions that you can get ALL Networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, CW, FOX), 4 or more 24 News Stations, Tons of PBS, 24 hour Music video stations, 4 Channels of NASA, 24 hour Movie channels and so much more (including thousands of music and radio stations)..

So can we consider a tad bit of education before we hit the BAN button!

</END RANT>

[bobkat]

Hi Bibbler:

Obviously your post was directed at me so I shall respond.

Under other circumstances I would tend to agree with you that we should be fair and give the benefit of the doubt.

However, when someone talks of "FTA", "DiSEqC" and "110/119/129/91/82" all in one breath I tend to think they know exactly what they are doing and needn't be reminded of the true meaning of FTA.

If someone said "Hi Everybody - I just picked up this FTA receiver on ebay. What can I do with it? What channels will I be able to see?" that would be a different story.

kat

[Bibbler]

Hi Kat,

Not really directed at you, but I see it more and more often...

Let me give ya an example. I had a guy call me a few months and told me he was putting up a FTA system. His "Uncle Joe" told him "with FTA, You Get EVERYTHING" and he wanted to know "how many HBOs I get"...

Yeah I know, it's difficult to believe, but I invited this guy over, showed him my system, and explained to him what FTA really was. He told me that "Uncle Joe" explained to him that whatever went through the air was "FREE" if you know how to decode it.

I have no doubt that if this guy had not found me, and instead posted on this forum for information, one of moderators would have banned him. If I were a moderator (which I am not) I would of responded with something like this:

=-=-=-=-=
WARNING:

You post is referring to illegal hacking of Free to Air (FTA) equipment to receive pay television. We do not allow posts of this type on this forum (Read the Rules)...

FTA offers much to users who enjoy this hobby. If you do not understand what FTA is, please see the following link:

http://www.sadoun.net/forums/faq-new...-channels.html

If you are interested in FTA, our members here are always glad to help out those interested in our hobby. However, any future references to illegal hacking will result in you being permanently banned from our forums.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

And what are the results? Had he come to you, you would of banned him and who knows what would have happened. However, he called me, seen my system, and now is the owner of a 36" ku dish (from Sadoun I might add), as well as a 10' C Band dish, and backed his cable to "basic service" and enjoys FTA for everything else.... The hobby now has a new member, and a damned good one who (a) not only buys a lot of FTA equipment but (b) spreads the word of FTA.

My post was not meant to be a criticism of anyone, but to simply point out that some people are indeed ignorant as to exactly what this hobby is.

Just something I ask you guys to consider..
\

[vicg1]

Personally I like seeing them get banned but don't like the thread being locked so quickly... sometimes I would like to get in a funny line or two before the lock...

[vj9999]

I use some discretion (sometimes it is obvious if user is genuinely confused or if they are just blatantly ignoring the rules). If I think post violates the rules I am quick to delete the thread.

In my opinion, better be safe than sorry. Like kat said. There are certain keywords that make it more obvious what users intent most likely is.

[Bibbler]

Yeah VJ, I've experienced your great knowledge of FTA and moderation style in the past. As you have said a "Binary File" is a sure fire "Keyword" that a person is a "Obvious" hacker...

You're the most "trigger happy" of all the moderators I've run across on ANY forum dealing with ANY subject - and I've been on dialup BBSes since 1982 and the net since 1995....

But like you said, "Better safe than sorry"... Think of the "serious consequences" if the poster turns out to be a hacker... God, the sun may not come up tomorrow. We can't waste anytime around here by being bothered to educate anyone, can we? Just boot em!!!!

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by Bibbler

Yeah VJ, I've experienced your great knowledge of FTA and moderation style in the past. As you have said a "Binary File" is a sure fire "Keyword" that a person is a "Obvious" hacker...

You're the most "trigger happy" of all the moderators I've run across on ANY forum dealing with ANY subject - and I've been on dialup BBSes since 1982 and the net since 1995....

But like you said, "Better safe than sorry"... Think of the "serious consequences" if the poster turns out to be a hacker... God, the sun may not come up tomorrow. We can't waste anytime around here by being bothered to educate anyone, can we? Just boot em!!!!

Actually Al I believe the serious consequences here on this board are Sadoun could potentially lose his franchise (if it is a franchise) to DN & DTV.

I have made a post similiar to yours in the past. The hacking community has greatly "soiled" the term FTA. I, until recently have always been a big dish person. Actually had the guys that installed my first dish at this location remove a pizza dish from my house. "No self respecting person would allow one of those things on their property". I started looking for Spanish language channels and stumbled across DVB MPEG2 (FTA). Figured there was a catch so I bought the cheapest receiver I could and tied it to my big dish. Once I learned more I grew that side of my system and was fielding requests from people wanting Spanish language programming & subs to premium channels. So I see CAM receivers and figure this is the way to go.

Remember I am big dish mentality. So I bought a CAM type receiver and got all set up with plans of subbing to DN along with having FTA all in one system. WRONG! Being a "rockhead" I pushed and pushed for the way to make it all happen before finally giving up. My personal rule is "It must be legal" so that put the hacking option out of my picture. There are some channels that are subs here in the US with a DVB FTA receiver but they are few and far between and certainly (at least not yet) HBO type channels.

I made several posts here that I am confident looking back on it appeared to be coming from a novice hacker. The guys here were patient and put up with me why I have no idea. I understand your position. I have a neighbor who's system is dead now. It was a hack system that was installed by a DN tech! How were these people to know it was not a legit system from DN? So they go out to the dish and write down everything they can about what they have and post to a legit forum. HACKERS! which in fact they were. It is a fine line. Perhaps if FTA was to just give up the FTA tag and let the hackers have it. After all there is no reference to FTA in OTA. Perhaps move to DVB MPEG2 tagging or LFTA (legal FTA). No idea the solution but I think the issue here is protecting Sadoun's interests.

[William Eng]

There seems to be high level of paranoia in this forum. When I discussed finding 2 FTA Vietnamese radio stations on G3C, I was immediately accused of hacking Direct TV. Why did they not verify this themselves before making accusations? It's shoot first and ask questions later. "Better safe than sorry".

[vj9999]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

Actually Al I believe the serious consequences here on this board are Sadoun could potentially lose his franchise (if it is a franchise) to DN & DTV.

That's exactly why I am "trigger happy". All of the moderators here have no affiliation with Sadoun. The way I look at it, I was given a good faith responsibility to help enforce the rules. Consequences of letting a potentially illegal discussion go on are far bigger than me hurting feelings of one person.

And I am reasonable If I made a mistake in my judgment and somebody points it out I am more than glad to apologize.

I also always go back and check most previous posts by the user before making a "quick trigger" decision.

I don't think I deleted any illegal posts in couple of months. Maybe my softer side is finally starting to show (or other moderators got to them before I did)

[bobkat]

Originally Posted by vj9999

The way I look at it, I was given a good faith responsibility to help enforce the rules. Consequences of letting a potentially illegal discussion go on are far bigger than me hurting feelings of one person.

Exactly.

kat

[bobkat]

A post need not refer directly to hacking; even the reference to hacking in terms of a generic installation question can trigger a ban. Here is a direct quote from the rules of this forum:

"Discussions on how to hack encrypted signal, or how to install, setup, or fix a hacked product is not allowed and will subject member to banning."

So for moderators to be labelled as "trigger happy" is unfair. We are fully justified in what we do.

kat

[bobkat]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

I have a neighbor who's system is dead now. It was a hack system that was installed by a DN tech! How were these people to know it was not a legit system from DN?

Well, perhaps the fact that they didn't pay for programming might be a clue..

kat

[Bibbler]

I had one of MY posts here CENSORED because I used the "Hacking Term" - - - - - - "Bin File"....

If you believe that the term "Bin File" is an "Obvious hacking reference", then perhaps I am indeed on the wrong board. If you don't know what a "Bin File" is, I suggest that you do a little research and LEARN something before spouting off about how proud you are with your work as a Moderator.,

Pathetic

[Bibbler]

Please check out Mr. Happy, He wants to align his dish on 82. He's "Obviously" an illegal hacker.... Better safe than sorry. Run over there an BAN him....

[keebs]

this place is like a morgue most of time i think some risky talk is just what we need. get everybody all fired up. make some waves and piss some people off. yup.

[bobkat]

Originally Posted by keebs

this place is like a morgue most of time i think some risky talk is just what we need. get everybody all fired up. make some waves and piss some people off. yup.

LMAO !! ahhh... makes me want to fire up a big Bob Marley splif...

kat