Emergency Power Generator

[Sadoun]

Today in California they had storms that left 280,000 business and homes without power for a day or so.

Do you have an emergency power generator at your business? I would recommend any small, or medium size business to have one in case one experiences an outage. It is a small investment when you consider the cost of lost business when you can't answer the phones, access the internet, network, or send employees home.

[pmb1010]

Yes, just last year our main HQ installed a natural gas, liquid cooled 20kw 3 phase unit. on my recommendation.

There are many things to consider.
Businesses sometimes need 3 phase power, so the "standard" generator typically won't do. Make sure it's sized to the requirements of the devices to be operated. Although our system runs our network, computers, - the outside connections depend on the local phone company to provide a data connection (Verizon) to the central phone office, and from there to AT&T for Internet connection. This is especially true of Cable TV internet connections. They most likely will not operate in wide area power outages.

If the power goes out the data connection might be lost due to loss of power on the poles for signal repeaters that are there, which exist to get the signal from you to them. Also, the requirement for UPS's doesn't go away, as generators do not pick up the instant the power goes out. They have detetection devices in their transfer switch circuitry, with built in delay to ensure the generator doesn't cycle on and off during minor electric blips. In our situation, we had to replace the critical UPS's as the new generator doesn't give 100% clean 60 cycle power signal, and the old UPS's would click on and off. New ones (expensive ones) with better inverter circuitry solved that issue.

Gasoline generators, having gasoline on hand can be dangerous. This is what I do for my home, I keep 5 ea 5 gallon gas cans on hand, with gas stablalizeer in it. Every couple months I'll dump one of them thru the cars to keep the gas fresh. Remember that gas pumps at gas stations won't operate without power. So getting gasoline during an outage can be an ordeal.

With Natural Gas, the big units use a LOT of gas. You might need bigger pipe from gas company, and they must provide enough pressure that you'd draw to operate your generator for your business. Make sure they come out and test your connection so you have the necessary flow & pressure. And with gas, be aware that Natural gas has electric powered "repeater pumps" along their lines periodically. If there is a area wide outage, your gas pressure might drop below requirements for your generator. Something to consider.

Hospitals & Police stations use generators with Diesel fuel. Less troublesome than gasoline, but now you have the ssue of replishment. Make sure if you go this route, that a contract is setup with a company to come bring you diesel on a periodic basis if there is a long outage.

And home users, please do it right and install the correct manual transfer switch for gas gererators at your panel. Pick 6 or so things you need (sump, freezer, fridge, furnace, some lights) and put those on the switch. Please do not backfeed a breaker in your panel. That is dangerous, illegal in many places, and not safe for the workers trying to restore power in your neighborhood. In some locations (Calif I think) you can be found criminally liable if someone is hurt due to backfeeding breaker panels.

Please be safe.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

Yes, just last year our main HQ installed a natural gas, liquid cooled 20kw 3 phase unit. on my recommendation.

There are many things to consider.
Businesses sometimes need 3 phase power, so the "standard" generator typically won't do. Make sure it's sized to the requirements of the devices to be operated. Although our system runs our network, computers, - the outside connections depend on the local phone company to provide a data connection (Verizon) to the central phone office, and from there to AT&T for Internet connection. This is especially true of Cable TV internet connections. They most likely will not operate in wide area power outages.

If the power goes out the data connection might be lost due to loss of power on the poles for signal repeaters that are there, which exist to get the signal from you to them.

Interesting comments, from an urban viewpoint. I live out in the sticks, where some things are slightly different. Since I moved here, 12 years ago, we have had multiple outages, one that was over 8 days, almost exactly 10 years ago when we had a massive ice storm that had about 50% of the state without power. We've also had a few 2 day outages, and every year we have 3 or 4 outages that range from 12 to 24 hours. So generators are a necessity here, mostly because without power, there is no water, since everyone has their own wells. I just have a small 5 KW generator that powers my well, and refrigerator/freezer, and a couple other things. Having data connections is the furthest thing from my mind during these outages, however I've found it very interesting that when trees come down over the power/telephone lines, it will amost always knock out the power, but it almost never knocks out telephone, so since I'm on dialup, I'd almost never lose internet connection. The reason is pretty interesting (to me at least). Power lines are typically pretty much hard wired from pole to pole, and when a tree comes down, it rips them from the pole. Telephone lines, however, are typically strung loose from pole to pole, so if a tree comes down, it just takes up the slack from several nearby poles. Telephone lines can typically be pulled all the way to the ground without them breaking. When we lost power during the big ice storm, we still had telephone.... for about a day and a half or so. Then we lost telephone. This confused me, but then I found out that it was what you mention above, ie we have a telephone box in our town that feeds all the telephones in town, and that box requires power. Apparently they have a generator in the box, so when there is an outage, the generator automatically comes on, but after a day and a half, the generator runs out of fuel. Our roads were completely blocked, so they couldn't get to them to re-fuel the generators until about the 4th day of the outage. It was a strange feeling to be without both power and telephone, and have the roads blocked for so long.

Originally Posted by pmb1010

...
Gasoline generators, having gasoline on hand can be dangerous. This is what I do for my home, I keep 5 ea 5 gallon gas cans on hand, with gas stablalizeer in it. Every couple months I'll dump one of them thru the cars to keep the gas fresh. Remember that gas pumps at gas stations won't operate without power. So getting gasoline during an outage can be an ordeal.

My generator is gasoline. I generally keep 5 or 10 gallons around for the tractors and snowmobiles, etc, so it's always fresh. If I ran my generator all day long, that wouldn't last through multi-day outages, but we generally only run the generator about 3 times a day, for about an hour or so, basically to run the water pump for a while, and run the freezer, and for long outages, to run the furnace to make some hot water for a shower. So 5 gallons was actually enough to last 8 days.

Originally Posted by pmb1010

.........

Hospitals & Police stations use generators with Diesel fuel. Less troublesome than gasoline, but now you have the ssue of replishment. Make sure if you go this route, that a contract is setup with a company to come bring you diesel on a periodic basis if there is a long outage.

I used to work in an army nerve gas lab, and they HAD to have 24/7 power to keep the building from becoming "contaminated". We had a big diesel generator that would automatically kick on, however our building had about 30 huge exhaust fans that had to be brought up to speed one by one, so it required a special timer that brought the important things on line first, then the less important things. It usually took about 10 minutes before everything was up. It was an interesting system.
But diesel has some other issues, particularly if you live up north. For homeowners, most places it isn't legal or practical to store it underground, and if you store it above ground, it can turn as thick as Jello when it gets cold. I have a diesel tractor, and it has frozen up a few times, and often when I go to pour diesel into the thing, nothing comes out of the container since it has jelled. They sell additives to keep it from jelling, but you don't think to do that until it's already frozen.

Originally Posted by pmb1010

And home users, please do it right and install the correct manual transfer switch for gas gererators at your panel. Pick 6 or so things you need (sump, freezer, fridge, furnace, some lights) and put those on the switch. Please do not backfeed a breaker in your panel. That is dangerous, illegal in many places, and not safe for the workers trying to restore power in your neighborhood. In some locations (Calif I think) you can be found criminally liable if someone is hurt due to backfeeding breaker panels.

Please be safe.

I keep meaning to install one of those things. It would make my life a lot easier during an outage. I usually just connect things one at a time. I've rigged things up where I can plug in a few things directly into the generator line, however during a long outage.... let's say I have done some things that I shouldn't do. I was careful, but you're right, back feeding is not something that should be done. They have TV ads here all the time telling people not to do this, because half the population up here have generators, and it's a significant issue. Although the bigger problem is people who run their generators indoors, and get killed by carbon monoxide. I have my generator out in my garage, but keep the garage doors open when it's running, and only spend a minute or so out there at a time.

I've been planning to get a propane fueled generator and an automatic transfer switch, but probably not until my 20+ year old gas generator dies. I'm amazed that the thing still works after all these years. It's so noisy, you can hear it a mile away (part of the reason we only run it an hour at a time), but it's been really dependable. Bought it from the same mail order catalog that I bought my first BUD from.

[Sadoun]

Great advice and discussion points.

I remember a few months ago, we had an outage in our commercial neighborhood that lasted around 8 hours.

With our business relying on the internet, we were lucky since we had UPSs on all of our computers, servers, and digital phone system. We didn't have a generator at the time, but we have one now. We currently have a diesel generator with an auto switch.

So, we turned off uncritical computers to conserve UPS energy (since we didn't know how long the outage going to be). We used a few computers to continue to service our customers and callers.

By moving some UPSs around we were able to continue minimum level operation through out the outage. However, we had to send most of our staff home since they couldn't use their computers.

My recommendation to home businesses & small businesses:

• Have UPS on all your computers, servers, and phone system. Specially the ones that are critical to your business operation.
• Get a power generator with enough capacity to at least keep you operating at a minimum level.

Here at Sadoun, we will be selling a small line of generators for home and small business use. More than 20 years ago, I used to sell Diesel generators , so I am no stranger to it.

[jp498]

I work at an ISP. We have wireless repeaters at about 50 locations. We lose power frequently. Power outages can be a major work disruption for us, and a letdown for customers.

We have UPSs everywhere, and Tripplite APS systems with large AGM batteries at places which require a long runtime (8-24 hours). This save us from having to run around like madmen with generators during storms for typical length power outages.

Tripp Lite PowerVerter APS Inverter/Chargers

We have a few small gasoline generators. Honda engines are a good power choice for gasoline. We have a variety of gasoline generators, but the Honda EU2000 is my favorite. It's quite and very efficient. (meaning less refueling trips)

Honda EU2000I Generator - Honda Super Quiet Generators

Our main site where all the servers are has UPSs and a 3-phase
Cummins/Onan generator 35kw diesel to match our 3-phase power. If you need 30+ KW, you probably need 3-phase. We use about 15KW, but want plenty of room to grow. It is on an automatic exerciser, block heater, fireproof room, motorized louver vents, exhaust chimney, 275 gallon heating oil tank indoors for fuel. It's nice. We've had stuff go 1000+ days (it's entire lifespan on the Internet) without losing power.

http://hosting.midcoast.com/otherser...ogenerator.jpg

At my house, which is my personal office when trees and power lines are across the road and I can't get out, I have the old work generator, a kubota gl6500 diesel. It's also very reliable, good on fuel, etc... I keep about 10-15 gallons of diesel in the basement for it, and I can run my whole house on it (including well), as we don't have an electric stove, electric hot water, or electric dryer. No big electrical loads means any 120/240v generator of modest capacity will work fine. It's good for about 12 hours on 3-4 gallons of fuel, and I have run it days at a time nonstop. I could bleed some heating oil if I needed more fuel.

[ayelvington]

My home in rural PA needs a generator to survive. Our boiler is wood-fired, and a loss of electricity kills the circulating pumps; no circulation means an over pressure in about 15 minutes. Bad, very bad.

I got a 6500 watt silent diesel and put in an automatic transfer switch to pick up essential loads. I went with diesel since there was no propane line anywhere near the generator, and gasoline is too dangerous to store in quantity.

My only problem right now is that I have a low-voltage condition that seems to be the result of my installation. Dumb stuff runs just fine (circulating pumps, lights, etc), but the UPSs hate it and cycle constantly. It's on the top of my list of things to fix when I get home again.

I'm in the service and have come to expect back-up power as a norm. Even my apartment building here in Arlington, VA has a generator to run safety lights and water pumps. (It's nice to cook with gas!)

[pmb1010]

the cycling UPS's might not be your install, but the dirty power from the generator.
Some UPS's dont like it and cycle back & forth, running the battery dead.

you need a dual conversion UPS.

Look at the APC RT series of UPS to fix this issue. THey are more expensive but take care of the problem.

[jp498]

Dirty power can be cleaned up by putting a resistive load on it, which will absorb the dirtiness. A 500w incandescent flood light will do.

http://www.f64.nu/photo/gen/image03.jpg shows dirty power out of my Kubota. A small load fixed it. Just little imperfections in the sine wave. http://www.f64.nu/photo/gen/image05.jpg shows the waveform with the load. I didn't have the scope triggering right, but you can see the waveform is clean.

The UPS governor might be out of adjustment too. UPSs don't like 59.0 hz, they like 60hz. Frequency and voltage drop together on generators. I have had to make minor adjustments to the governors of many generators to get it just right under a steady load. A Kill-A-Watt is probably the cheapest way to measure frequency, but an APC smartups with a monitoring cable will work too.