Subscription services

[Hueffenhardt]

I am new to home satellite systems. I currently have an active thread in the FTA forum trying to figure out how to get set up for FTA. In this thread I want to discuss subscription service alternatives.


Currently, I am aware of 4 different ways to get subscription satellite services: Dish Network, DirectTV, 4DTV with the DSR922, and the DSR410 packages (ESPN is not available with 410). I believe there was something called BigDish, but it seems to have gone the way of 4DTV. My first question is: are there other options that I don't know about? Each of the above offer regular cable-type channels. How would one subscribe to services that would descramble the channels that are not typically offered in nationwide cable packages (or does 4DTV do that as well)?

I have the impression that the Dish Network, DirectTV, and DSR410 get all of their programming from one satellite, whereas 4DTV accesses multiple satellites. Is that correct?

With Dish Network and DirectTV, you can have it installed in up to four rooms for the price of one room. I am concerned that that might not be the case with the other two options. The DSR922 receiver is a lot more expensive upfront, than any of the other options. I could see potentially upgrading to it in time, but I need a multi-room subscription service with little upfront cost, as I will already be purchasing a few things to get my FTA system up and running.

Assuming I already have a 8.5' mesh dish with a C/KU LNBF, I could get a DSR922 for $439 with a qualifying $100 purchase and I would get free analog, videocipher analog, free digital, and digicipher channels. Or, I could get a Mercury II for $109 for my FTA digital, and a DSR410 for $130 for digicipher, for a total of $239. That is a savings of $200. Am I missing something? What are the limitations as far as multiple tv viewing?

Alternatively, I could get the Dish Network with 4 room installation with no upfront cost, and a Mercury II for $109 for FTA digital. That would be a saving of $330 over the first option and $130 over the second option and I know I could get the subscription channels in every room with no polarity restrictions, etc. Honestly, this last option looks the most attractive to me. But, I don't feel that I am looking at other the variables. What else is there to consider?

[rainman]

if you are looking at multi rooms then Dish OR Direct would be your best option the 410 and 922 won't do multi rooms. the 410 use only 1 sat the 922 use all sats that you can receive and Dish and Direct usally get channels form 3 to 4 sats do to multi lnbf's.

[Hueffenhardt]

Thank you, rainman.

[wejones]

Well, multi-room means different things to different people. The Dishnet/DTV multiroom is nice because each room can watch different programming from different sats/polarities, but of course you have separate receivers in each room. That's usually not possible with big dish stuff, but you can still have signals in different rooms if you don't need to have different programming in each room. Ie you can just run A/V or RF lines to each room, or, for the FTA stuff, you can use a computer card receiver, and send the video via local network, which is what I do.
Dishnet/DirecTV is certainly convenient, and there are more channels available, but even though those 2nd rooms are often free installation, you generally pay extra per month.
A 4DTV gives you both analog (VCII) and digital (DCII) subscriptions, plus the free (ITC) analog, and free (FP) DCII. There aren't as many channels available, but the quality is usually better. The 410 subscriptions are just a subset of what's available via 4DTV, and a regular analog receiver can usually be used to subscribe to analog (VCII) programming.
Of course there isn't much analog VCII stuff left, as most has gone digital, and most remaining VCII stuff will probably be gone in a year or two. The same might be true for the DCII stuff available with the 4DTV/410, because they really don't have enough subscriptions to support the cost of putting the feeds up, and the only reason they are still putting up as many channels as they are, is because some of these signals are already being uplinked to cable companies, etc, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the DCII stuff dissappears in a couple years too, so I really have a hard time recommending paying for an expensive 4DTV, when there is the chance that it could be a poor boat anchor in a few years. Of course they've been saying that for years, but there has been a decline in big dish subscriptions from millions down to a couple hundred thousand I think, and constantly getting less and less, and I just don't think they can keep supplying these channels with so few customers. This doesn't mean an end to big dish or analog or DCII, just that I don't think the subscription services can survive.
Just my opinion.
Personally, I subscribe to DirecTV, mainly for NFL Sunday Ticket, CNN, and a couple other low quality cable type channels where the low quality of the DBS signals doesn't matter. All my quality viewing I do either OTA or via free feeds on big dish. I no longer subscribe to anything over big dish anymore, and just use the big dish for free things like NASA, PBS, and sports feeds, and the occasional premium things that sometimes go FTA.
But if you're planning to subscribe to subscription channels, I'd recommend looking closely at what channels are avialable, because DTV has some channels like NFL Sunday Ticket, that no other service has, and Dishnet has a few that only they have, and the 4DTV channels are missing many channels available on the DBS services.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt

Thank you, rainman.

you are welcome.

[Sadoun]

I hope you can consider ordering through Sadoun if you decide to go with DirecTV or Dish Network. We are an authorized dealer for both and offer the same national offers that any other dealer would offer you.

We rely on a nationwide installer network to perform the installation for these two services.

[pmb1010]

can you tell us what value Sadoun adds to the transaction of ordering Directv or Dish Network thru Sadoun, over just going to their respective home websites and buying there?

When I thought of switching from Cable to small dish type tv years ago, it was a confusing mess of receiver types, revision models, package and package discounts. Does Sadoun work with the customer to help walk them them thru their purchase options?

[wejones]

I'm curious too how dealing through Sadoun differs from dealing with DTV directly. Particularly, once you already have a DTV subscription, can you deal with Sadoun to change what programming you are subscribed to????

Reason I'm curious, is that while DTV makes it relatively easy to subscribe to things via their web page, they often make it difficult to unsubscribe, and or change the subscription to a lower level. On a couple occasions, I've found it necessary to call up to do what I want to do, and end up talking to someone in India, who doesn't understand my situation.

Also, since I tend to use used ebay receivers, I've had to call up to transfer my subscriptions from one receiver to another, which often involves them sending me a new card for the used receiver, and again has involved me talking to someone in India, who eventually has me transferred through about 3 people until I'm back in the US talking to someone who was capable of transferring the subscription.

Anyway, I'd be interested if dealing through Sadoun could simplify either of these two situations. Or is Sadoun only involved in the initial subscription, and then everything goes through DirecTV??? Just curious.

[Sadoun]

DTV or DN are making it easy for you, once you become a subscriber, to change your programming and so forth. You can now do it online by logging in to your account or by doing it interactively using your receiver's menu.

For a new customer, we would only supply the equipment, and installation. We don't sell the programming. That is provided with DTV or DN when the receivers are activated after the installation process.

We help the customer choose the right equipment based on their needs.

I am also open to proposals to make it more attractive and add more value to order through Sadoun than going direct with DTV or DN. Any suggestions?

[pictureon]

Originally Posted by Sadoun

DTV or DN are making it easy for you, once you become a subscriber, to change your programming and so forth. You can now do it online by logging in to your account or by doing it interactively using your receiver's menu.

For a new customer, we would only supply the equipment, and installation. We don't sell the programming. That is provided with DTV or DN when the receivers are activated after the installation process.

We help the customer choose the right equipment based on their needs.

I am also open to proposals to make it more attractive and add more value to order through Sadoun than going direct with DTV or DN. Any suggestions?

I've seen Free iPod, Free portable DVD player, Next day installation...

[reho33]

Bill,
Not to hijack the thread but I just wanted to ask your opinion on the 4DTV situation. Is it your opinion that DCII will go away and DVB-S2 may be the protocol of the day in the near future? Because then if all go DVB-S@, we will need new receivers that can do 8PSK, MPEG-4 and DVB-S2. I was going to get a DCII receiver but I think I will wait until all shakes out a year or 2 from now and go with the prevailing equipment at that time..

[elgemcdlf]

On the original thread, lower upfront usually translates into higher overall costs. As to DTV / DN and FTA. You will need a second dish for the FTA and if you are going to use it in multiple rooms you are probably best running with separate dishes for each room. I see no reason why you could not use a 4 output lnbf on the 410 option which would be 1 sat and 4 receivers. Same as DN/DTV. As I understand DN / DTV you pay extra for each receiver. I think you might be getting blinded with free 4 room install. Your monthly fee will be x + y / additional receiver + whatever else they throw in. If you want locals they cost extra. I can not say on every specific package but that has been my understanding. Plus they can raise rates anytime they desire. I sub by the year (4DTV) so no surprises.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by elgemcdlf

On the original thread, lower upfront usually translates into higher overall costs. As to DTV / DN and FTA. You will need a second dish for the FTA and if you are going to use it in multiple rooms you are probably best running with separate dishes for each room. I see no reason why you could not use a 4 output lnbf on the 410 option which would be 1 sat and 4 receivers. Same as DN/DTV. As I understand DN / DTV you pay extra for each receiver. I think you might be getting blinded with free 4 room install. Your monthly fee will be x + y / additional receiver + whatever else they throw in. If you want locals they cost extra. I can not say on every specific package but that has been my understanding. Plus they can raise rates anytime they desire. I sub by the year (4DTV) so no surprises.

Only thing I see wrong with this is the 410 may be a boat anchor soon as all the Hits programs that it receives is moving from ku to c band.

[Muad'Dib]

Originally Posted by reho33

Bill,
Not to hijack the thread but I just wanted to ask your opinion on the 4DTV situation. Is it your opinion that DCII will go away and DVB-S2 may be the protocol of the day in the near future? Because then if all go DVB-S@, we will need new receivers that can do 8PSK, MPEG-4 and DVB-S2. I was going to get a DCII receiver but I think I will wait until all shakes out a year or 2 from now and go with the prevailing equipment at that time..

DVB-S2 slowly approaches. Even some channels/packages are transmit in mpeg4 but the old DVB-S here.