H180, 6foot dish, C&Ku Analog, DVB & DCII

[pmb1010]

I'll try to keep things going on this thread, of how this install is going.
Equipment:

180cm Fortec Prime Focus Dish
H180 motor
BSC621 C/Ku LNBF
DSC920 Analog/DCII receiver
Lifetime Ultra

I setup a temporary mount, put up 8 feet of 2.5" EMT pipe (3 into the ground, 5 above) with a 1/3 bag of quick concrete. I knew this was temporary, so I did not pin the pipe. Mistake 1 - it rotates in the concrete. Maybe not a bad thing.

The biggest hassle I had was mounting the motor to the dish. Bibbler cut up the square tubing that came with the stand and used that. I did same, but I would NOT do this again. The issue with it is the motor sits to close to the dish, and the brackets hit the dish flanges. I had to bend (a lot) to get the motor to sit right. I didn't like that, I'm not sure if I have warped the surface of the dish by doing this. The right way is to get angle bracket material, maybe 2" by 1" which would allow the motor to move away from the back of the dish. My plan is to re-fabricate this mount.

Now I have the dish on the pole, and am using a GI 650i receiver I have to move it around. I'm used to USALS. This is a big learning experience to set up a polar mount. After a few hours of hunting, looking for signals, I find the ABC signal on 87w on channel 20. But, I'm expecting Doc Scott on this... hmmm. Well I come to find that the GI receiver doesn't seem to play well with the BSC621, as I change the type from Normal to Reversed in the settings, and no Doc Scott. Never came in. Now I'm wondering if the LNBF is bad, as I did have my other BSC-621-2 hooked up to this dish a week ago, with the 920 and I DID see University network channel.

I kept at it, adjusting, fiddling to find and locate analog channels (they are far and few between, making this a challenge) but I did manage to locate EWTN, TBN over on the west side of the arc. Haveing the ability to rotate the pole in the ground (rather then the dish brackets on the pole) is a good thing here. It was easier to adjust.

Next day I brought out the 920 and hooked it in. NOW i'm seeing doc scott. I did manage to DigiCipherLock on a bunch of channels (no subscription) but it's working. The fixed skew on the LNB is going to be a hassle, as one of the sats west needed additonal 20 deg of skew, and that throws off the others. Thus, the advantage of a co-rotor setup.

I tried to find Ku test pattern analog channel on 85w channel 6, but I could not find it.

Now to try the Ku digital side with Fortec box. One thing I notice right away... Turning the Fortec box on and off (connected to the Ku port on 621) makes the picture BETTER on C band! Looks like the 920 box is not putting out enough voltage or whatever for V/H. Another issue to work out.
I did move the dish over G10R, found the C band channel 19 that Spike used to be on, it has VCII and color bars. Put the Fortec on the Ku side, and after very very minor tweak, there's some KKTU and whatver DVB coming thru.

So thats it for now. More to come later.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

...

Now to try the Ku digital side with Fortec box. One thing I notice right away... Turning the Fortec box on and off (connected to the Ku port on 621) makes the picture BETTER on C band! Looks like the 920 box is not putting out enough voltage or whatever for V/H. Another issue to work out.
.....

I don't understand what you're comparing here? Ie are you comparing C-920/Ku-Ultra{on/off}
or
C-920/Ku-Ultra-920{on/off}
or
are you slaved via "T"/DC-block?
AND....are you watching same polarity on C and Ku???

Ie I seem to remember someone in this group running analog off the passthru without a DC block. I've always thought this was a questionable situation, and I'm wondering whether there is some interaction between the two receivers.... ie perhaps without a DC block the Ultra is pulling down the DC power on the 920, depending on the polarity being called for????
If only using the Ultra on the Ku, I'm curious about whether the same polarity is on both bands. Again, I'm stuck with the co-rotor mentality where the polarities have to be the same, and even though there was the discussion about electronic switching in these lnbfs, I wonder if there is some interaction of the voltages internal in the 621 lnbf, rather than it being a problem with the voltage put out by the 920? I've never seen it verified in the 621 documents that both C and Ku can be operated on different polarities at the same time. You'd think that you could, but maybe not???
This is when one of those JVI-10 type signal meters (I have a Channel Master single version similar to this) would come in handy, since you'd be able to monitor voltages or currents on both C and Ku side at the same time.
Anyway... interesting.

[pmb1010]

Not slaved, but have 2 individual cables run back.

C-920 was on Doc Scott. Own TV. I think it's V.

Ku-DVB was on nothing (just hooked up) and just pointing at 87w cuz it's all on the same LNBF.

Turning on the DVB receiver I noticed change on C band signal.
I dont know how it was set.

Can't use DC block. This isn't serial, but parallel connections. The Ku LNBF on this BSC-621 must get power to work.

Update for today:
Seems to be working. I have C band running, I'm watching the ex-Spike TV channel on G0-19, and DVB is on G10R's RTN channels.
When I turn on the DVB box, I get more "sparkles" on the G0-19 channel, but I really dont care as once I get this finished up, it'll be all on one TV and both boxes will not be used at the same time.

As a test, it would be very interesting to put the splitters in, with one leg DC blocked to see if this BSC621 continues to operate (I suspect it will not).

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

Not slaved, but have 2 individual cables run back.

C-920 was on Doc Scott. Own TV. I think it's V.

Ku-DVB was on nothing (just hooked up) and just pointing at 87w cuz it's all on the same LNBF.

Turning on the DVB receiver I noticed change on C band signal.
I dont know how it was set.

Can't use DC block. This isn't serial, but parallel connections. The Ku LNBF on this BSC-621 must get power to work.

Update for today:
Seems to be working. I have C band running, I'm watching the ex-Spike TV channel on G0-19, and DVB is on G10R's RTN channels.
When I turn on the DVB box, I get more "sparkles" on the G0-19 channel, but I really dont care as once I get this finished up, it'll be all on one TV and both boxes will not be used at the same time.

As a test, it would be very interesting to put the splitters in, with one leg DC blocked to see if this BSC621 continues to operate (I suspect it will not).

When I was referring to a DC block, I was talking about having both the Ultra and the Ku side of the 920 hooked up on Ku, either via passthru or via splitter, in which case a DC block is necessary on one receiver, and the power comes from the other one.

But I see what you're doing anyway, ie just have the Ultra alone on Ku. The interesting thing is that this lnbf is intended to be used with it's internal switch, and most external switches don't pass DC to the port that isn't selected. Although perhaps the switch that's inside this LNBF does pass DC to both lnbs. I know that you aren't using the internal switch, I was just thinking about how it was intended to work if you DID use the internal switch, which would be to have the same voltage on both LNBs. However since you're NOT using the internal switch, you could be putting different voltages on the two lnbs, as well as to the 2 sets of polarity probes. I just have to wonder if due to it's design, it might be confused when it has different voltages applied to it??? Just a thought, but it might be interesting to change polarity on the DVB unit while watching the C-band side.

[pmb1010]

Originally Posted by wejones

change polarity on the DVB unit while watching the C-band side.

as I change channels on G10R on DVB, there's no difference on the C band reception.

[Larry Acklin]

I vote for LO leakage. 5150X2 = close to 10750

Larry

[pmb1010]

Some pictures,

the H180 motor attachment.
Various shots of dish, and BSC621.

The last pic is of what the dish is looking at (currently G5) looking thru the hole in the dish.

This is temorary install on some EMT tubing. I have some black 2" pipe ready to go in.
Tree guy is coming tomorrow to consult on the big maple tree right in my way.

[Ski5010]

What does slaving do for me when all is done,Cause i did it but i didn't notice a change or what am i looking for exactly.Oh and what channel and sat is the IFC on Thank you

[pmb1010]

slaving a receiver is essentially piggy-backing one receiver to another.
Typically you'd use a 4dtv/analog receiver, and a DVB receiver. The one that controls dish movement is usually the "master" and other, the"slave".
WHen you point the dish, the 2nd receiver tags along and is sharing the LNB's primary sat signal.

So if your 4dtv receiver moves the dish, install splitters to send the signal to your DVB box.
BUD Slave Kit Splitters, Switches, DVB MPEG2 Sidecar 4DTV Receiver ....Great Prices

When you tune your 4dtv to say G0 (Galaxy 10R), the DVB receiver could be used to pick up C band and Ku band digital channels (assuming you have both C and Ku on the dish)

If you slave the other way, DVB does the dish motor drving, you run the IF LOOP output of the DVB receiver to your 4dtv receiver. In this case, the DVB receiver controls the LNB.

My system is setup like the link above at this point, except the Ku on the 4dtv is not hooked up just yet. Soon, but not yet.

Independent Film Channel is on 4dtv satellite X4 (99DegW) Channel 252

[Ski5010]

Ok Great! i got the idea now . Tell me is IFC KU Band

[pmb1010]

yes Ku 4dtv digital.
So you must have 920 or 922

[Ski5010]

I have a 922 Its just that im trying to tie evrything together were it looks neat but so far all those switches and cable behind the receivers,It's really messy looking and the wife don't like it LOL

[pmb1010]

women are allergic to dishes, aluminum antennas, and wires.

[rainman]

Originally Posted by Ski5010

I have a 922 Its just that im trying to tie evrything together were it looks neat but so far all those switches and cable behind the receivers,It's really messy looking and the wife don't like it LOL

just tell her not to look.LOL
oh yeah I fortgot can't tell a woman anything.

[Ski5010]

Yeah thats for sure LOL

[Ski5010]

Oki tried the slave idea,But i find that my Pansat doesn't pickup the sat signals my DSR922 is picking up,I can't get anything on the pansat

[pmb1010]

so how is it hooked up exactly?
And explain your dish equipment (lnb setup).

Your Pansat only receives DVB signals.
Your DSR922 only receives DCii and Analog signals.

What satellite were you looking at?

Here's an example you can try:
Set your big dish to G0. Make sure you see DCII light on 922 on any digital channel (I dont care if you get picture or not)

Set your DVB receiver to Galaxy 10R C band.
See if you can get the DVB Outdoor Channel
4180 H
tp 24The Outdoor ChannelDVB29270-3/4

You MIGHT have to change channels on the DSR922 to get the polarity right, but eventually you should get some quality indicaton on 4180H
Might have to nudge the dish a bit, as the digitial channels are more fussy than analog channels.

Good luck.

[rainman]

you should use the Pansat to find the best signal by moving the dish east and west with the actuator to lock in the Pansat then your DSR 922 should have better quality levels. also the Dsr can lock on signals with a inferior lnb where the Pansat may not.

[Ski5010]

I have the setup just like the this site shows to be.So how do i move my dish to get the Pansat to see the SAt firdt before my DSR922 when the motor setup is coming from the 922.Dish equipment is down below here at Signiture

[rainman]

Originally Posted by Ski5010

I have the setup just like the this site shows to be.So how do i move my dish to get the Pansat to see the SAt firdt before my DSR922 when the motor setup is coming from the 922.Dish equipment is down below here at Signiture

use the DSR 922 to move to the sat then turn on the pansat receiver for the sat that the DSR is on then use the DSR to bump the dish east and west to you get the highest quality reading on the Pansat. it helps if you have picture in picture capabilites so you can see both receivers on the screen at the same time.

[Ski5010]

Ok i tried to move the dish for my Pansat but came to find out or remeber is that the dish will only move so many clicks one way or the other and apparently is not enough.Any ideaa without canceling my 922 sat setups?

[pmb1010]

I have no trouble once I get lined up on C band, the plus or minus 10 clicks you get for fine tuning is way more than enough to dial in the FTA receiver. If you're moving past that much, you've got something wrong I suspect.

By the way, you can get past that adjustment by using the "adjust satellite" (or something like that) allows more movement than the fine tune.

Or, you can use the spare slot 922 satellites to put in a few FTA based locations.

[Ski5010]

Ok ill try that Thank you

[pmb1010]

As I wait (an eternity, it seems - he didnt show up scheduled appt) for the tree guy to come here and help me clear my view of the arc, even though I'm having a blast with this 6 foot dish and C band.

Now that I have 920, I get to scan both digital DCII and analog signals and with the C band cable split, I get digital C band, too.

Been spending a lot of time on some free DCII that recently went back scrambled (some discovery channels), and I think the channel I've been hanging around most is ARTS channel on G1/5. What a great station. To see Andre Segovia on the guitar is simply an amazement.

What a difference it was going from 4 foot to 6 foot.
This new H180 motor and 6 foot combo is a real winner for the hobbiest.

So no real news, just scanning around, watching what I can. G10R/Ku on the BSC621 is great too with this dish. Wife thinks I'm nuts. "What, Mission Impossible again"? Yeah...

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

Been spending a lot of time on some free DCII that recently went back scrambled (some discovery channels), and I think the channel I've been hanging around most is ARTS channel on G1/5. What a great station. To see Andre Segovia on the guitar is simply an amazement.
...

Yeah, I really like that classic arts channel too. It really has a broad spectrum of things it shows, some very old and some very new.
I used to watch it on G1 (G15) , but I can only get that in the winter, PLUS, being analog, it isn't as easy to record things I like. It used to be that there was a FTA version on G26-ku, and it still occasionally shows up FTA, but not very often, and not very long. However they run 2 or 3 1 or 2 hour segments of the Classic Arts channel on AMC5 on the NYN channel, I think it's the 2nd or 3rd channel in the mux with all the scrambled racing channels. I often record these to .mpg files, then edit out the stuff I don't like, and create little music videos out of the stuff I do like. Excellent stuff.
It has caused me to buy several DVDs to get more of the good stuff.

[pmb1010]

Tree guy called today to say tomorrow morning for the job.

[elgemcdlf]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

As I wait (an eternity, it seems - he didnt show up scheduled appt) for the tree guy to come here and help me clear my view of the arc, even though I'm having a blast with this 6 foot dish and C band...What a difference it was going from 4 foot to 6 foot.
This new H180 motor and 6 foot combo is a real winner for the hobbiest. ...

If going to 6' got you this excited just imagine what 8 or 10 would do I think you are hooked. Pretty soon we will be reading about the 21' dish you just found & ...

[pmb1010]

yeah you got that right.
I got a good view of a lot of the arc now.

The small pieces a guy at work is going to use for firewood.
The 2 long 12 foot hunks I'm going to dry for a year, and make a table or something out of it.

tree remnants:

[rainman]

that looks like quite a bit of firewood someone should be warm this winter.LOL

[ayelvington]

I really appreciate you sharing your experience with this install since I'll be doing the same soon in NW Pennsylvania.

I have a comment/question. Have you had any strong winds since you did the install? The web page for the motor pretty clearly states that the combined load factor can't be too high or it will damage the motor. I'm going to have to deal with both snow and wind at my location and am looking ahead on that. RSVP al