H180, 6foot dish, C&Ku Analog, DVB & DCII

[pmb1010]

the answer is I'm not sure. I haven't had the dish/motor too long, only a few months.

I think we had 40mph winds -- but the issue is the dish is not pinned in its temporary spot. So it just rotated out of position.

I didn't know there was any wind load issue with this motor.
If the wind breaks it I guess I'll just deal with the problem at that time.

I'll have snow too. Western NY we get lots of snow.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by ayelvington

I really appreciate you sharing your experience with this install since I'll be doing the same soon in NW Pennsylvania.

I have a comment/question. Have you had any strong winds since you did the install? The web page for the motor pretty clearly states that the combined load factor can't be too high or it will damage the motor. I'm going to have to deal with both snow and wind at my location and am looking ahead on that. RSVP al

I wouldn't worry about the wind so much, but snow is definately an issue. That's one of the few advantages of offset dishes over prime focus, ie offset dishes are almost vertical, and don't collect snow, but a prime focus dish will collect a LOT of snow. I used to park my dish to the west, when a snowstorm was expected, hoping that it would keep the snow off, and that does help, but now my motor is getting so old that I have trouble getting it back from the west in the winter (which is unfortunate because the winter is the only time I can get reception of the western sats due to leaves).
Anyway, every snowstorm, I have to go out with a broom on an extension tube, and brush the snow off. For a light fluffy snow, all I have to do is bang the dish, and the snow slides off, but heavy wet snows are hard to get off, which is why my dish is all dented, since I generally have to bang on the mesh from underneath to loosen it, and I now have softball sized dents in the dish. Hopefully the snow won't stick to a solid dish as much as it does to my mesh dish.
Besides the extra load on the motor, you'll probably find that the weight of the snow pulls the dish out of alignment. Ie I used to think that the snow was absorbing the signal, but actually it was pulling it off aim.

? What part of NW Pa?

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

the answer is I'm not sure. I haven't had the dish/motor too long, only a few months.

I think we had 40mph winds -- but the issue is the dish is not pinned in its temporary spot. So it just rotated out of position.

I didn't know there was any wind load issue with this motor.
If the wind breaks it I guess I'll just deal with the problem at that time.

I'll have snow too. Western NY we get lots of snow.

I used to live in Md, and when a hurricane came up the coast, we had some pretty strong winds. I had a hole drilled through where the mount goes over the pole on my 11' dish, and had a medium sized nail through the hole to mark my true south. THe strong winds rotated the dish like a weather vane, and cut the nail. If it hadn't, I suspect the dish might have been damaged.
So you live in a cold place with a lot of snow, and don't have fireplace and have to give away your firewood or wood stove? Nothing like sitting in front of a fireplace when you're snowed in and the sat dish isn't receiving anything.
I've been cutting lots of firewood for NEXT year (has to dry out for about a year before you can use it), unfortunately, I still don't have a view to the west.

[Vitruvius]

PMB1010,
How is that 6 feet dish doing? How many stations are you pulling in? I am contemplating getting the MC-1 package from Sadoun. It will be a lot of work for me since the location for the dish will be about 100 ft from the house. My powered shed will be 30 feet from the dish, and 70 feet from the house, so I thought I could put an inline signal booster in the cable there, or even the controller for the motor. Everwhere I read that an 8 ft dish is really the smallest for C band, but if you are getting a good amount of content why not just get the motorized 6 feet dish. I just have a Mercury II, so would you recommend getting an analog tuner (922)? And a HDD-200 for the HD content?

Regards, VIT

[pmb1010]

I'm still sorting things out, but yes I do have access to a lot more of the sats on the arc now.
Still assessing things, only on the 4dtv 920 receiver, mostly DCii type stuff as I have not fully migrated off the 4 foot/Ultra yet.
My Diseqc 4 port switch quit working, of which I had the C signal split for a while which had the ultra connected via a splitter for a while.
At this point everythings on the 4dtv box.

Seeing what's FTA, what's not. I dont have the guide so trying to figure out whats on what channel is very time consuming.
I did find a few in the clear channels on 4dtv, some are infomercial channels.

I think your best bet is find a used 7.5 foot dish that someone is getting rid of.
I went with 6 foot for a few reasons, one is I have no way to transport a used dish without much difficulty.
And I wanted new. Is there anything I'm missing because of 6 foot rather than 8? I dont know. The BSC621's C band gain makes up a lot of dish size differnce. I have not run into issues where the frequency stability is an issue. It's working. I'm getting TV particles to display on my screen.

More to come.

[reho33]

Hey Bill did you try the Kings Rain Shield spray on your large mesh dish? Because it may not prevent snow build up but might make it easier to clean.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by reho33

Hey Bill did you try the Kings Rain Shield spray on your large mesh dish? Because it may not prevent snow build up but might make it easier to clean.

No. I guess I was always a bit skeptical that that stuff did any good. It does sound like it might help with snow on a solid surface dish, but I'm not sure about whether it would work with a mesh dish. Dry snow is never a problem, I just bang or shake the dish, and it slides off. But wet snow, that sort of starts to melt, then re-freezes is the stuff that's hard to get off, and I think it kind of goes through the holes, freezes and locks itself to the mesh, kind of like the lathe that they use for plaster walls.

[lumpkin666]

I remember "back in the days" having a shaker device that was connected to both sides of the dish and connected via coax inside the house. Press a button inside the house and it'd shake the snow off the dish. It sure made a lotta noise though (My dish was close to the neighbor's house behind me.. so eventhough I was unaware of the shaker noise, they would inform me the next morning if it bothered them during a 2am sky-scanning session *laf*)

[Vitruvius]

Yes, this was a great thread. Is the 2 1/2" EMT piping strong enough for this dish? Do you think 2" EMT would work? Or is Schedule 40 plumbing pipe the way to go?

Reade

[rainman]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

Yes, this was a great thread. Is the 2 1/2" EMT piping strong enough for this dish? Do you think 2" EMT would work? Or is Schedule 40 plumbing pipe the way to go?

Reade

go with the schedule 40 pipe. I use black gas pipe which is schedule 40 for my dish and no problems.

[pmb1010]

I only used it because I had it on hand. I would not trust it for permanent install. If it's going to be windy, I typically point the dish sideways to the wind best I can to minimize wind load. It's in the ground much longer than I wanted at this point. It took a long time to get a tree guy here (we're still suffering from the October 2006 freak snowstorm that toook out a bunch of trees, and tree guys are still booked)

I have a 10 foot section of black pipe sched 40 from Lowes, it's not very expensive and is what will be installed as soon as I get a break from work.

[Vitruvius]

Ok, Now I am real excited... I finally ordered the 6 foot motorized dish kit from Sadoun two weeks ago. I was sent everything but the dish and that is on back order, so I am eagerly waiting for it. I guess I will have that weekend project that will probably last all winter.. ha ha. I plan on getting that 2" or 2 1/2" pipe (55mm to 75mm) and plant in the ground in the next couple of weeks if the soil doesn't freeze. I also have to figure out what wiring to set up to the dish. The dish is about 150 feet from my house. I figure one coax, 14 ga power wiring, and 16 ga communicating cable to bury a few inches under ground. I might get some of that ribbon cable since I may want to plant my current 80 cm dish near by.

Would it be easy to connect the 6 ft dish using C and Ku band with a motor and the 80cm fixed dish to one Mercury receiver with a disque switch? I know the LNB feed horn uses C and Ku with its own switch built-in. What about two motorized dishes?

About that slippery dish issue for the snow load, I wonder if that RAIN-X for car windshields would work? It is basically wax, and all the skiers put wax on their skiis to slide through the snow....

[rainman]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

Ok, Now I am real excited... I finally ordered the 6 foot motorized dish kit from Sadoun two weeks ago. I was sent everything but the dish and that is on back order, so I am eagerly waiting for it. I guess I will have that weekend project that will probably last all winter.. ha ha. I plan on getting that 2" or 2 1/2" pipe (55mm to 75mm) and plant in the ground in the next couple of weeks if the soil doesn't freeze. I also have to figure out what wiring to set up to the dish. The dish is about 150 feet from my house. I figure one coax, 14 ga power wiring, and 16 ga communicating cable to bury a few inches under ground. I might get some of that ribbon cable since I may want to plant my current 80 cm dish near by.

Would it be easy to connect the 6 ft dish using C and Ku band with a motor and the 80cm fixed dish to one Mercury receiver with a disque switch? I know the LNB feed horn uses C and Ku with its own switch built-in. What about two motorized dishes?

About that slippery dish issue for the snow load, I wonder if that RAIN-X for car windshields would work? It is basically wax, and all the skiers put wax on their skiis to slide through the snow....

yep you can hook both dishes to one receiver get a 4 way disqec switch don't use the switch in the bsc 621 instead run c band to port 1 of the 4 way ku to port 2 and the 80 cm to port 3 should work just fine.

[Vitruvius]

Thanks Rainman...

Can I put this switch close to the dishes, say 25 feet, and then run a single cable back to the house which would be about 125 feet?

Thanks

[rainman]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

Thanks Rainman...

Can I put this switch close to the dishes, say 25 feet, and then run a single cable back to the house which would be about 125 feet?

Thanks

get dsc-41 that Sadoun sell with the weather cover and you can put it right at the dish which is recommended.

[pmb1010]

Originally Posted by Vitruvius

1) I might get some of that ribbon cable

2) connect the 6 ft dish using C and Ku band with a motor and the 80cm fixed dish to one Mercury receiver with a disque switch?

3)What about two motorized dishes?

4)RAIN-X

1- I'd use 2 runs of good, current production coax rather than stuff that might be old vintage just because its got ribbon with it. Then you're assured you have all the signal you can get back to the receiver.

2- probably. What's the LNB for the 6 footer?

3- That's going to be dicey. What motor do you have for 6 footer? If I remember, Bibbler was going to attempt something like that and burned up something...

4- That should work.

I never did get my new steel pole in the ground. I did replace the EMT that was rotating by putting a new piece of EMT in a new hole, with bolts thru the pipe to pin it in place. It's windy today, and it flexes enough in the wind to make the picture unstable.

[Vitruvius]

Thanks PMB1010.

I have the BSC621-2 LNB that comes with Sadoun's kit.

I got an exterior disque switch from Sadoun, but it came with no instructions or diagrams. It has 5 connections on the bottom and is housed in a plastic shell. Which connection goes back to the receiver, and which ones go to the LNBs?

I still don't have my dish. It has been 3 weeks and I am getting a bit disappointed.

[pmb1010]

you need to remove it from the plastic shell.
Use a screwdriver or something to move the shell away and it'll slip out.

Typically, the center port is the one that goes back to the receiver.
You'll know right away by looking at the other ports- they will be labeled 1 2 3 and 4. It might be on the end, also. You need to look at it.

You will not use the small jumper cable on the BSC621-2.
Connect port 1 of the Diseqc switch to the RCV port on LNB (C band)
Connect port 2 of the diseqc switch to the END of the LNB (Ku band)
Connect port 3 to your 80cm fixed dish (Ku band)

Connect the center port to your long cable back to receiver.

[Vitruvius]

Well, I bought a 2-1/2" x 10 ft. galvinized heavy pipe from Home Depot. It was expensive...$40. I hope it won't bend in the wind... I started digging the hole and it looks deep at 2 feet and my target is 3 feet. I gave up today and will dig the rest next weekend.

I am pretty sure I have some good lines of site to bunches of satellites. There are trees near my 79 and 87 targets, but they look like they are just below my 40 degree elevation mark.

Thanks for all the good advice you Experts...

[pmb1010]

It'll be worth it. 40 bux ain't too bad.
I had to buy a 2nd bag of fast set concrete and it alone was $9!

You might want to search for an old C band analog receiver too.
makes for lining things up a little easier - digital "snaps in" whereas analog gets a fuzzy picture if its off a bit. THeres still some stuff on analog that makes it worthwhile the $50 or less for a box.

[ayelvington]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

It'll be worth it. 40 bux ain't too bad.
I had to buy a 2nd bag of fast set concrete and it alone was $9!

You might want to search for an old C band analog receiver too.
makes for lining things up a little easier - digital "snaps in" whereas analog gets a fuzzy picture if its off a bit. THeres still some stuff on analog that makes it worthwhile the $50 or less for a box.

I bought two head-in analog receivers from eBay and really like them. Blonder-Tongue makes great stuff. Sometimes you can get as many as three for $20 (+ shipping). You can turn off the LNB power and connect one to the IF output of your digital receiver.

[pmb1010]

We got our first significant snowfall yesterday. Probably close to a foot of snow.

As you all probably know, the 6 foot dish on it's own is a compromise in that although it gathers enough C band signal to give some viewing cabability, it's right at the edge of minimum signal levels.

I'm finding that the snow has significant consequences, at least on my install. I lost a lot of the picture due to snow collecting the face of the dish.

This resulted in a couple things.

- I did not confirm this, but the snow on the face might cause the dish properties to become so out of wack that the signal getting to the LNBF is degraded.

because of:

- The snow pulls the dish down enough to be off signal. This was a combination of 2 things, my pole is not very rigid, as I'm still using the EMT tubing on temporary install spot. So the weight of the now is flexing the pole a bit.

- the slop in the motor brackets, clamps, and gears & stuff. It seemed as though I could pick up the dish and move it significantly. I think I had the bolts tight, but we had some pretty good winds a couple weeks ago and it might have had some cause and effect.

I did end up scraping the snow (about 3" from around the dish) with a small piece of wood and yanked up to kind of lift it back up so I was back on track. Once done, the C and Ku signals were back.

Notes for next spring:
- get the Sched 40 into final spot for dish
- resolve the cause of the flexing and get this thing nailed down
- try as someone suggested, putting Rainx on the dish to help slow slide off it. Shovelling the dish every few hours is not fun.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

We got our first significant snowfall yesterday. Probably close to a foot of snow.

As you all probably know, the 6 foot dish on it's own is a compromise in that although it gathers enough C band signal to give some viewing cabability, it's right at the edge of minimum signal levels.

I'm finding that the snow has significant consequences, at least on my install. I lost a lot of the picture due to snow collecting the face of the dish.

This resulted in a couple things.

- I did not confirm this, but the snow on the face might cause the dish properties to become so out of wack that the signal getting to the LNBF is degraded.

because of:

- The snow pulls the dish down enough to be off signal. This was a combination of 2 things, my pole is not very rigid, as I'm still using the EMT tubing on temporary install spot. So the weight of the now is flexing the pole a bit.

- the slop in the motor brackets, clamps, and gears & stuff. It seemed as though I could pick up the dish and move it significantly. I think I had the bolts tight, but we had some pretty good winds a couple weeks ago and it might have had some cause and effect.

I did end up scraping the snow (about 3" from around the dish) with a small piece of wood and yanked up to kind of lift it back up so I was back on track. Once done, the C and Ku signals were back.

Notes for next spring:
- get the Sched 40 into final spot for dish
- resolve the cause of the flexing and get this thing nailed down
- try as someone suggested, putting Rainx on the dish to help slow slide off it. Shovelling the dish every few hours is not fun.

Yeah, what you describe is typical. You can still see signals through a bit of snow, but usually the weight of the snow destroys your alignment before you lose signal due to the snow blocking the signal. Most people in the north tend to park their dish over to one horizon when snow is coming, so that the snow won't collect as deep. If it's a cold dry snow, you don't need any special coating on the dish, just bang it with your hand or a broom, and it all slides off, again assuming that you're aimed low to the west or east. If it's a wet snow though, nothing helps, at least with a mesh dish, as it kind of melts into the holes and re-freezes. At this point you have to bang it off from behind, which ends up denting the mesh. I have softball sized dents in my mesh due to banging off ice. But with a solid dish, I guess it's possible that a coating might help keep it from sticking, I don't know.
Yesterday's snow was pretty dry though. I just hit the dish by hand, and all the snow slid off.
Anyway, I don't think you'll ever get the flex out of the dish. I've never seen a dish that didn't have some flex in it. I thought most of my flex was in the mount itself, rather than the pole, but I'm sure the pole flexes too.

[pmb1010]

The dish is very light metal material.
If I was to bang it about too much, I think it's fold onto itself!

The problem with yesterdays snow (although it was light) it left a crust layer on the dish, and although tapping it did drop 4" on the top/light stuff, it left 1 inch of crusty junk.

and I never ever had to fool around with my offset 4 footer over the past few winters. The plusses of having the face angle much steeper I guess

and I did try the "point it at C1" trick, at least for a bit.
It was just snowing so much, and I wanted to watch stuff near 99 degress that it acted like a scoop out there

The neighbor behind me and 3 doors down has a black mesh dish, and it's mounted on a pole good 20 feet up minimum. Wonder what they do...
I've never seen the occupants to ask.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by pmb1010

and I did try the "point it at C1" trick, at least for a bit.
It was just snowing so much, and I wanted to watch stuff near 99 degress that it acted like a scoop out there

Yeah, I wanted to watch something on 93 that started at 1:00, but in the morning it was really coming down. I kept it on G5 until about noon, then lucked out because the snow let up for 3 hours, then it started snowing again right after I was done.

Originally Posted by pmb1010

The neighbor behind me and 3 doors down has a black mesh dish, and it's mounted on a pole good 20 feet up minimum. Wonder what they do...
I've never seen the occupants to ask.

There's a house I drive by a lot about 10 miles from here that has a dish up 20 feet or so. I really don't know how they got it up there or how they keep it in alignment. There would be enough flex in that pole that if you climbed up the pole to align it, your weight would pull it out of alignment while you're up there so once you came down it would be different. You'd almost have to back a bucket truck up next to it. Either that, or they have an az/el mount or a declination motor, so it doesn't have to be in good alignment.

[ayelvington]

Many thanks for following up with your experience with the recent snow. I'm in NW Pennsylvania and we got a lot here too. The current crew of offset dishes shed snow well, so no problem there. I'll be sure to use a stout ground post and possibly put a back haul on it. I have an offset dish in VA that tends to catch wet snow and I put Kings on it; the spray works well enough, but i wonder if Rain-X would work as well???

Again, many thanks,

Al

[rainman]

On the dry powder snow I use the actuator to bump the dish east and west this usaly shakes it off on the wet stuff I have to use a broom to sweep it off.Luckly we haven't had a lot of snow here lately.

[wejones]

Originally Posted by rainman

On the dry powder snow I use the actuator to bump the dish east and west this usaly shakes it off on the wet stuff I have to use a broom to sweep it off.Luckly we haven't had a lot of snow here lately.

It's been a great year for snow up here in Maine this year (great, if you have 2 snowmobiles, skiis and snowshoes that have been sitting mostly idle for a couple poor snow years). It's knee deep already, and it's all been nice dry snow that falls off the dish easily. Sometimes it will fall off when I move the dish, but usually not. I think the H-H isn't quite as violent in it's movement as an actuator. However sometimes I can kind of get it rocking by doing a bump,bump, bump with the motor, but you have to be lucky to match the natural vibration freq of the dish. I usually have to go out and knock it off. But it's part of my routine. I first blow the snow off my driveway, then I get out my snowmobile to make paths for my 3 dogs (otherwise the only place they can do their thing is in the driveway), and one of those paths goes right by the dish, so I just drive by the dish and give it a knock. But if it's wet snow, I have to go get a long extension broom to try to pull it off. The really bad stuff is when you get a couple inches of snow, that is followed by freezing rain. That stuff is nasty to get off. Only thing you can do is scrape the top snow off, and wait for the sun to sublime the crust. A few years ago we had about 6 snows that were followed by freezing rain, so the snow was a terrible layered stuff that you couldn't even walk through, because each layer of ice would cut into your knees as you tried to walk. Only way to get around was to use snowshoes. This is a great winter so far, all nice dry snow that you can walk in, if you're not a dog.
BTW, the paths I make for my dogs are also used by deer, coyotes and hare, which is neat. Kind of neat to go out and make a trail with the snowmobile in the woods, then drive over it the next day only to find that all sorts of animals have been using the snowmobile trail to get through the snow.
Anyway, I like the snow. Although it complicates TVRO stuff a bit.

[Vitruvius]

Has anyone put heat tracers on their dish, like the heating elements used to wrap plumbing pipes that are exposed to the cold? I bet that would work, but you would want to put a switch on the power so they aren't heating your dish all the time. This is obviously for the softies out there who don't want to get snow on their feet.

The're putting that stuff everywhere - under driveway and sidewalk slabs, and under bathroom tile floors...

Oh the wind was amazing this past Sunday. So much whistling and racket, that I thought it was going to blow my house off its foundation. I think it spun my 31" inch dish out of alignment. I haven't checked yet but I did notice it pointing to an UFO when I left in the morning.

[Vitruvius]

If you do a search on the internet, there are manufacturers of heating elements for satellite dishes. I've seen them for the small dishes up to 38" dishes... Didn't find any for big dishes yet...